PG product glut

[Hugmenot]

Dengelwood, I don't mind the paying when the games are going in production rather than when they shipped as long as I get a discount. My beef was more that I don't want to spend more than $X a year on games and I would not shelled for Sword of Israel had I known that 4 more PG games would go on pre-order this year.

Companies which use a P500 typically charge credit cards a few weeks before the product is ready to ship.

I did buy a good percentage of my PG products on eBay and from online discounters so I am not one to criticize your approach.

[Shad]

Its unlikely I'll ever purchase from APL again, preferring instead to find titles at Ebay or Noble Knight Games, for example. I realize this post may raise the ire of APL defenders, but that's how I see it.

I think this is an entirely reasonable position to take, and it's the same way I've approached them since the shit really hit the fan a couple of years ago.

A detailed analysis of APL's business over the past 6 years would probably make for a great MBA case-study.

[stear]

I realize this post may raise the ire of APL defenders, but that's how I see it.

Well, it shouldn't raise ire. In my mind, there are several positions on APL:

1) The mechanics / scenarios of the game series themselves

2) The game components

3) How they are paid for and distributed

I will usually give my unrequested views on the former, at least for the naval series, as I strongly support them.

The components... variable. I would prefer mounted maps, die-cut / no scorch, and well formatted color example rulebooks and data sheets. Don't always get those, but can tolerate what has been issued for most part.

The latter, well... I recognize APL is struggling, but a sale is a contract... you have to deliver. Dog-ate-my-homework excuses may cover some years, but at some point, the music stops, and you have either reconstituted business to a better model or folded. Yes, I have pre-orders from 2007, and have even pitched in to help them get issued. But: I recognize generous volunteers do not a sustaining business model make.

As my old PhD adviser said (ex-Shell chief engineer), three rules of sales: on time, on budget, happy customer. Any two, and you are usually OK.

-Jim

[Matt W]

Its unlikely I'll ever purchase from APL again, preferring instead to find titles at Ebay or Noble Knight Games, for example. I realize this post may raise the ire of APL defenders, but that's how I see it.

I think this is an entirely reasonable position to take, and it's the same way I've approached them since the shit really hit the fan a couple of years ago.

A detailed analysis of APL's business over the past 6 years would probably make for a great MBA case-study.

I doubt it. The people gunning for the A's would say that AVP should have shut down rather than dribble along and try to meet the promises.

[dengelwood]

From my vantage, APL is the epitome of love-hate. Love the games, hate the...hmmm....attitude? arrogance? disregard? There's something fundamentally unsettling about a business that refuses to answer emails or phone calls directed to their advertised communication channel. I recently purchased the fragments of Eastern Front from a fellow whose game was shipped minus the Soviet armor counter sheet. Fortunately for him, my Eastern Front (which I purchased from Ebay, btw) had suffered water damage and I needed to replace the damaged maps. Unfortunately for him, he had attempted to stay within channel to replace the missing component (email/phone directed at the advertised lines of communication). No response, so he gave up then stumbled upon me. He's since given up on PG and will no longer play the games. How does APL intend to prosper with such blatant disregard of their base? I don't mean to be overly critical, but really --- who can't answer an email to unfuffle the feathers of a recent buyer and to make good on a purchase? I can only shake my head, enjoy the PG I have, and move on...

[stear]

There's something fundamentally unsettling about a business that refuses to answer emails or phone calls directed to their advertised communication channel.

I can actually sympathize with Mike on this point. It's just him. Susan is once remove from the incoming comm's. Given a constantly-ringing phone and 400-500 e-mails a day asking about product, I'd rather have him sidestep all but the most critical, and focus on slogging games together. No, it's a less-than-perfect system. But, it is one I am willing to accept, if it gets product out, and gives APL the cash to get debt cleared and ensure happier times.

Now, if it leads to Lys Fulda coming back as BGG/CSW rep... that I can do without. I think while she might have been great for dealing with manufacturers / distributors, she was quite frankly condescending / insulting to the major fans (but perhaps at the time, they were a minor concern, with big shipments heading out from the Virginia factory).

-Jim

[campsawyer]

three rules of sales: on time, on budget, happy customer. Any two, and you are usually OK.

I would add one more Quality. Most if not all customer service issues are due to a lack of quality control. An on time on budget product can be undermined by the lack of quality kills future sales, no matter what. I also understand that nothing is perfect, but not trying to improve this will lead to more work/cost for the same revenue. Case in point is Sword of Israel. Still on hold for shipping due to the scorched counters and forcing people to cancel/switch their orders. I fear this will be devastating for this new series.

[armyduck95]

Alan, I agree. Quality will be the killer. I have experienced long pre-order lag times from other publishers as well (GMT, MMP, LnL Games), so I do not hold that as a uniquely APL issue.
Luckily for me, I have had excellent dealings with APL customer service. But from reading this thread, I must be the outlier. For the most part, I rarely if ever, pre-ordered. The exceptions have been Saipan and Sword of Israel. Saipan was on the mark. I don't mind being patient on an order when I am getting constant feedback from Mike on the issues. God knows I have still to play all my other scenarios in the mean time! Sword of Israel has got me waiting more than I would like. I bit the bullet on Saipan, Liberation, and Sword of Israel on pre-order. And maybe But my experience with pre-order with Sword of Israel, as well as how long I have waited from other publishers has me wary of pre-ordering now. I am more willing to pay more money later than front the money, even at 30% off - if it means I am waiting more than 6 months on a game. Having money in my pocket now starts the look better.... buyers remorse sets in the more the $ is tied up in waiting.

[stear]

I would add one more: Quality.

Yes, it is a key component of "happy customer," which always has to be satisfied!

-Jim

[vulcan558]

Quality is one thing I have never found a need to grumble about with AP. I have 4 PG and 5 GWAS boxed sets, and the quality is great. To be honest, I'd rather have a game on time than laser cut counters. I gather that laser cutting allows smaller runs, on demand printing and a host of other business friendly advantages, but clearly the technology has come back and bitten APL with Sword of Israel. Maybe there is a case for churning out sure-fire sellers like Eastern Front PG or 'World War 3' PG Modern with lower tech, rather than limited run, direct from publisher products like SoI, or esoteric (but very cool) games like Ironclads or Frontier Battles? IMHO, PG Modern should have launched with WWIII or Vietnam. Yes, they have competition, especially from LnL, but people buy games on those topics in volume.