low Saipan sales numbers...

[Hugmenot]

Today, on a lark, I emailed Mike and offered to make him a lovely VASSAL module for Saipan in 7 days or less if only he sent me the printing proofs. Wouldn't that be nice? Realtime online play with hidden unit functionality right out of the gate! One can dream... I hope he sees the wisdom in the offer...

Maybe you should tell him to send a copy of KSF to Marco Arnaudo!

Marco has a strong following and his reviews are some of the most balanced reviews found on the web.

[J6A]

I don't know how well or poorly KSF is doing. The counter orders have been slow but steady. I think the bigger issue is that there just aren't being enough counters produced to do a big distributor run with these. To do 300 copies of Saipan takes up print capacity for a few weeks (we can do about 250 sheets/week, total) and there are a lot of other things besides PG being printed. I think KSF will do fine once it gets into stores, and right now, I get the impression that AP still hasn't shipped all of the pre-orders (or maybe its just a few that fell between the cracks).

I got Saipan on a whim and to support AP. I'm not as interested in the Pacific, and this one does look interesting. After all, I hear the designer does excellent scenarios...I mean, they are all rated 4s and 5s.

I agree about sending a copy to Marco. That could help. He just reviewed GMT's Panzer, and this would be in a similar vein.

On an unrelated note - Larry, you're near Burbank? We should get together for some PG next time I'm in SoCal, which is likely to be early December. If all goes as expected, I'll be seeing clients in Arcadia and Costa Mesa (VPG).

[Hugmenot]

Failing that, I'd rather see APL fail and PG's copyright & system picked up by a company who can provide a quality product in a timely manner with decent customer support - in other words, exactly what I expect from ANY product.

I recommend you never buy a laptop from Dell or any middleware products from ANY SOURCE if that is your expectation; you risk being severely disappointed.

I am not arguing your right to post criticism but I do take issue at your alluding your expectation is a standard met by most companies.

In my 25+ years of experience consulting in the IT business, rare is the occasion in which we did not have to find our own workarounds to problems vendors acknowledge but refuse or could not fix. Even muti-million maintenance contracts are not usually enough to entice companies to meet said expectation.

[larry marak]

Bitterness about the straits Avalanche and its pre-ordering customers are in is understandable. Put yourself in Dr B's position for a moment though...he has to produce merchandise with no money for many gamers, he has to produce new products that sell well at the same time, and the monies he gets from those have to 1) fund delayed projects 2) pay for new products 3) pay the very limited saleries of the mostly volunteer staff and himself and 4) finally redeem loans taken out to keep the company afloat. Its a very tall order. If he succeeds, it will probably be the end product of a 4 year ramp-up at least. Its hard to tell someone who bought several games (me) six years ago to be patient several more years. But I know that patience and endurance is the only way we will ever see our merchandise.

At least we are not talking the Dallas role playing game (SPI's final release) or TSR purchasing assets without liabilities and gyping 50,000 subscribers to S&T. Avalanche making a herculean effort to recover.

[waynebaumber]

I am sure Saipan will do OK sales wise eventually, but lets not kid ourselves we are in a hobby which is in a terminal decline with very few young people having an interest in military history and gaming, war game sales will slowly decline to a point where they are not viable.
This is not really a reflection on AP/PG just a sad fact of life.
In regards to Jay's and PY's posts, anyone who posts on this forum is a PG supporter and are entitled to air their views, this is an independent forum and and long may it remain so, personally I am looking forward to playing Saipan but should AP fold tomorrow and there are no new PG scenarios ever, well life will still go and I have about another 1000 + scenarios to attempt so plenty still to play and discuss.
Live long and prosper.

[Poor Yorek]

I am not arguing your right to post criticism but I do take issue at your alluding your expectation is a standard met by most companies.

I'm sorry that your consumer experience is so negative. I certainly cannot claim to speak authoritatively to the integrity of the IT business as a whole. Are you suggesting, however, that APL's level of product quality control and customer service is within the "norm" or even within a reasonable range of adequate (despite Larry's repeated apologia)?

[Shad]

*yawn*

The good discussions always happen while I'm asleep... I think you guys are trying to avoid me!

This thread expanded rather naturally from one game's merits to that of the company. And that's because people have something to say on the topic. And that's why we're here!

The anecdotes about game stores was telling. That's a part of the hobby I've never had a good grasp of. My hometown of Tampa, FL has two "games stores" and they both cater almost entirely to miniatures and table-top card games like Magic. During a quick stop back home in September the closest thing I found to a wargame in the first was Small World (laughs) and in the other Axis & Allies. Thanks but no thanks!

So I cannot appreciate the importance of retailers, having never lived near a real one! But I take your feedback at face value.

The laser cut printing seems like a bottleneck, but I'm still personally skeptical there are more than 500 ready purchasers of a boxed PG game anymore for all the reasons others have mentioned.

Why some of you dislike the Pacific Theater is a mystery to me! But that only further reduces the pool of potential customers...

[JayTownsend]

I deleted my earlier posting, I don’t think it added anything beneficial to this folder.

[Shad]

I deleted my earlier posting, I don’t think it added anything beneficial to this folder.

As is your right, no worries mate.

And try not to take any of this personally. After all, we can't start flaming the designer until we have the scenario book in our hands!

[Poor Yorek]

I deleted my earlier posting, I don’t think it added anything beneficial to this folder.

In like vein, I deleted my reply as it is now superfluous.

It was not my intention to generate controversy and I did not anticipate any response to my initial post here: I thought that I was simply giving my personal feedback to the inquiry made by Shad in the OP. In no manner was I reflecting on Jay's work in designing Saipan.

As for Shad's cognitive dissonance regarding why one might have no interest in Pacific Theatre land warfare, one might as well ask why one person is into air combat (or likes to build model airplanes), whereas the next person is into sea warfare (or prefers to build model ships), whereas ... there's no accounting for taste sometimes. :hrugs::