Chinese units?

[plloyd1010]

I've thought about making a game occasionally. I just don't have enough time to devote on a consistent basis. So I make counters and play experimental games. Maybe that is why I am only a sergeant.

I generally use Inkscape for the counters. I have used GIMP and CS2 on occasion for special problems.

Your CCP guys should be better off than mine, though maybe not as motivated. in WW2 that are still very much a revolutionary army, without heavy equipment.

[JayTownsend]

Too bad Peter, I think you would do a great job doing this one. I just kind of burnt out starting another design and AP is pretty far behind with six of my turned in designs that are not published yet. Maybe after I take so time off I'll go back to designing again.

If you change your mind, I think each game design depending on the size, takes me about 180-300 hours of work counting reading and studying. If you put in about 40 hour per week, it would only take you about 5 weeks. I use to do 1.5 hours before work, 2.5-3 hours after work and 20-24 hours on a weekends. Easier done in winter weather than nice weather. I did one design after I was coupe up for 7 weeks after surgery to repair some old injuries. Or there is that gradual method of doing a littler here and there over 8-10 months as well, which I have tried on a few. When I start a design however, its hard for me to stop, until its complete, it become an obsession of creative art that needs to be put on paper, to tell the historical story of the men and equipment that fought these battles and to balance the victory conditions in an interesting way, so they will be fun to play over and over again. Also, if I don't get it all on paper soon, I'll have to reread every this with my short term memory.

[Hugmenot]

[snip] I think each game design depending on the size, takes me about 180-300 hours of work counting reading and studying.

Developing games takes us roughly 4 - 8 hours per scenario on average, including the time it takes to verify the OOB, prepare the document for final editing. game special rules, etc.
Games and supplements that require extensive special rules can require more time. For example, I spent over 120 hours on Land Cruisers and that does not include the time Matt spent developing scenarios.  I fear River Boats will take as much, if not more, development time.

[JayTownsend]

You have it worst Daniel. Not sure if you get paid or not but I don't. But its all for the love of the hobby!

[dxdavieau]

The war in China is a seriously under appreciated topic. I'd LOVE to see this produced!

[Greyfox]

The war in China is a seriously under appreciated topic. I'd LOVE to see this produced!

Agreed

[Matt W]

The difficulty is source material.

[JayTownsend]

Matt, I found an old book in English called: A Brief History of Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945) and this supplemented with some internet sites I found, I had enough information to actually design the War in China game. I start composing data to start work on this game but changed my mind. The reason is; I don't want to invest 4-6 months of work on something that I doubt will get published. I can find other ways to waste my time that are more fruitful. Avalanche Press/Mike has so many of my designs already, that I hope get published but I am not going to risk more efforts/work.

Besides, AP probably would split it up again, into who knows how many games.

[Matt W]

I just read Forgotten Ally about the Chinese experience in WW II and it reinforced my understanding.  It is not that we don't know that an engagement occurred and not that we can't identify what "units" were there.  It is more the case that Japanese troop strengths for units varied wildly from TOE and when it comes to the Chinese it depended on whether the warlords actual top quality units were there or whether they sent their untrained and poorly armed drafts forward.  

From an equipment standpoint the Chinese Army was ALL over the map.  Just because a warlord had received a shipment of arms didn't mean that those arms got to the troops in the field.  Indeed in most cases those arms went to the warlord's immediate guard and their retainers, often for resale to, for example, the Communists or even the Japanese.  The lack of records from the Chinese side is intentional in order to hide the massive corruption which was central to the Chinese governing process, despite the efforts of Chiang to reduce it and of Stilwell to use the supplies for his attempts to recapture Burma after having been chased (on foot!) out of the area in '42.

While certainly a game can be created about the war, and I would love to see it, the records are such that it would be difficult to have any confidence that the OOB, including the troop quality, etc. would be any more than a WAG.  There is some hope on the horizon, however, as the Kuomintang is being somewhat rehabilitated. Rana Mitter, the author of Forgotten Ally indicates that with the improved climate more is being learned about the war itself in China for all Chinese units, not just the People's Army.

[zaarin7]

Another issue that would have to be reflected is that Chiang was constantly trying to equip his units for the civil war to resume after W W II and trying to keep them out of fighting the Japanese. This lead to a huge amount of frustration on Stilwell's part and the entire CBI command.