Bombardment units in assault hexes

[plloyd1010]

This question came up in last night's session. Should bombardment units in an assault hex be allowed to bombard the enemy within the assault hex?
This would be similar to the AT fire in an assault hex question from a while back.

My inclination is yes, but then caveats emerge.

1. Rockets would obviously be unable to fire within the hex.
   
2. Would mortars be able to fire within the hex? Heavy mortars (90mm+) no, light mortars (60mm-) almost certainly, medium mortars are questionable.
   
3. Could all guns bombard within a hex? I can see (and read of) a 75mm planting a round 50yds away. Could a 155mm do it? A heavy AA gun certainly can.
   
4. What about friendly fire? Always apply? Only apply if friendly assault that urn?
   
5. What about collateral fire (rule 12.53)? Apply if friendlies assault in the same activation? In the same turn?
   
6. The +2 for guns bombarding adjacent hexes. Does it apply? (The AT +1 adjacent doesn't.)
   

Something think about.

[treadasaurusrex]

I think that this comes down to a question of scale.

At PG scale, if an emplaced mortar or artillery platoon is in a 200 meter assault hex, it's very vulnerable to incoming fire & melee effects and should not be able to fire at the attackers with bombardment fire. It should be able to fire the platoon's (relatively weak) small arms at the attackers at close range as abstractly allowed in the assault rules.

 At least, dug-in artillery/mortars get first fire, before they are typically overwhelmed -- if they are by themselves -- in an assault hex.

[plloyd1010]

Keep in mind that these are still only a strength of 1 on defense. Since they cannot initiate and assault (light and medium mortars are a technical exception), they are already likely to be overwhelmed without protection. My question only comes up when they can initiate the action. Could they have a fire order and fire as the AT guns can?

[treadasaurusrex]

I don't think so.

[triangular_cube]

I fail to see a rules rationale as to why they could. Rule 12.52 seems pretty explicit that they cannot.

[plloyd1010]

I fail to see a rules rationale as to why they could. Rule 12.52 seems pretty explicit that they cannot.

The question is more as to it being a reasonable consideration. I'll put you down as a no.

[cjsiam]

I think that this comes down to a question of scale.

At PG scale, if an emplaced mortar or artillery platoon is in a 200 meter assault hex, it's very vulnerable to incoming fire & melee effects and should not be able to fire at the attackers with bombardment fire. It should be able to fire the platoon's (relatively weak) small arms at the attackers at close range as abstractly allowed in the assault rules.

 At least, dug-in artillery/mortars get first fire, before they are typically overwhelmed -- if they are by themselves -- in an assault hex.

But---at the same time it is still allowed to use it's inherent AT fire at Tanks in the Assault hex....

So the rational being -- if you can organize fire at tanks---could you not similarly produce impacts against infantry at very close range?  Destroying building containing 
enemy firing at you can be effective....

I fear it may come down to a "size of weapon/exposure of crew thing".....guns <=75mm, particularly Inf Guns--and 60mm mortars, I would propose do have an ability
to throw some of their firepower into close range offensive fire---larger weapons possibly not....
What about SPGs?
Like a Wespe for example?....blowing up buildings can be very dangerous for infantry trying to assault?

[treadasaurusrex]

Realistically, you are probably right about small mortars in bombardments and infantry guns with direct fire at very close ranges in urban areas.

Then again, the traditional thinking is that the more rubble, the better, on defense in urban settings.

[plloyd1010]

Part of the question is also why can infantry guns (apart from the French 37mm) participate in assault combat, even attack in assault, when other guns cannot participate because of their white combat factors? I have a hard time imagining a 15cm sIG being much more mobile than 10.5cm leFH 18.

[leonard]

Hmmm. I’m coming back with my previous proposition to give an inherent Direct Fire capability to Bombardment only units. The inherent direct firepower would be proportionated to the Bombardment firepower.