Represented by a truck (and other substitutions)

[plloyd1010]

Triangular_cube reintroduced a problem with his Bush Artillery gripe. Not that it's unreasonable, but resolution could be spotty. We've all seen the scenarios which call in substitute counters from other forces. Meet Maurice Rose is an example. The German army is represented by 2 trucks. For those familiar with the scenario, one truck obviously belongs to the SS, the other to the Luftwaffe. On the other hand, there have been scenarios that eventually got substitute counters in their national colors, like On the Run.

With Vassal has come a sort of solution. Counters graphics beyond the physical countersets now exist. That would be things like SS and Luftwaffe truck, Hungarian 37mm AT guns, so on. Everything on the scenario page order of battle can look like it belongs to right national force. Units absent, like Slovak truck, can be added in. Wonderful, aesthetically pleasing, intellectually satisfying, but a mountain of rework. So which is better?

[Schoenwulf]

One of the advantages of Vassal is that the counters can be "living", so if they can be modified to match the appropriate force without a significant increase in blood pressure, that sounds good.

[goosebrown]

I agree. We should use the strengths of Vassal to get the scenarios really working as intended. If we need 37mm Hungarian AT guns and the notes say use the German? Fine for the boxed game where there are "n" pieces on the countersheet, but we are not under that limitation. I know it represents more work, but where we can, we should make the experience better here in Vassal

[triangular_cube]

I don't really have anything more to add than I already said in the Bush Artillery thread. I keep waffling on which way of logging it is more proper, but as long as we are consistent I will be satisfied. 

I do think the wording is confusing people over whether you are talking about adding units to vassal or the library pages though.

[plloyd1010]

I do think the wording is confusing people over whether you are talking about adding units to vassal or the library pages though.

The units are added to Vassal, hence the graphics exist. The questions is, should those graphics be used in the library to replace substitute references in the scenario books? Following the example of my second link, should there be 2 German army trucks, or 1 SS truck and 1 luftwaffe truck?

Bush artillery is a little different in that APL eventually provided counters in Desert Rats.

APL also eventually provided downloads for non-British Commonwealth transport, SS transport, Romanian trucks and strongpoints for 4-5 non-German countries. I think the substitutes make the OOB pages look weird. I think using only 'official' replacements from downloads and later games would be inconsistent. Using Vassal graphics would look better, eventually be consistent, but may be confusing to newer members and many people do not read notes (here or in Vassal).

The poll has an even 1-1 split at this time. A good representation of Congress, and not a good sign for consensus.

[Schoenwulf]

Now 2-1. It appears that the filibuster has been overridden. If folks don't read notes, this would be a good learning opportunity to get used to doing so. Otherwise, why put energy into writing notes?

[triangular_cube]

Seems the wind has finally determined its direction. If you guys end up needing info from the ancient or otherwise rare stuff shoot me a PM. I have at least one of everything around here somewhere... except for that free copy of Black Panthers that may or may not ever come.

[plloyd1010]

Seems the wind has finally determined its direction. If you guys end up needing info from the ancient or otherwise rare stuff shoot me a PM. I have at least one of everything around here somewhere... except for that free copy of Black Panthers that may or may not ever come.

I'll wait until the poll is closer to closing. I set it up for 2 weeks. I think this is an important question and some people don't check in very often.

I have the same Black Panthers problem. My qualifying order to get it free was 2 years and 5 days ago.

[Schoenwulf]

It sounded like all of us with free copies are waiting for it to come with Franz Josef's Army

[plloyd1010]

I reworked Meet Maurice Rose as an example as to what scenarios would look like without substitute units. The note about the trucks would be typical of reworked scenario pages.