Assaults and Wall Flowers

[cjsiam]

So there is this assault hex.....

There are german and russian units in the hex.....this is not the first turn of assault...it's been carrying on...
It so happens that a couple russian units are demoralized.....
  they cannot participate in the Assault.....they roll to recover----say they recover and do not flee....they have finished their activation (officer and inf)
The other two units in the hex participate in the assault against the dug-in defenders...who roll first and get a 1....
meaning one step loss, and everyone rolls an M2...

BUT---who is everyone?

We contend that "everyone" is those who participated IN the assault, NOT the wallflowers who were psyching themselves
  back up into the fight behind a rock.....
Thus they are NOT impacted by the results of the Assault by there comrades in the hex...

We agreed this seemed right.


anyone disagree?
cj

[plloyd1010]

That's another hole. While it seems that only the active attackers should be subject to the effect, the rule rule says everyone in the hex is affected.
How about a counter point? Assume excess hits: If say there are 2 hits, 1st eliminates the attacking unit, where does the second hit go? Would both of the non-participating units be subject to a moral check?

I think the problem you keep alluding to is the miniatures vs. hex map dynamic. That issue has always been that there must be some movement and specific event spillover occurring within the hex. The problem has always been about how to standardize it.

[Hugmenot]

The charts should have been a little more explicit in my opinion.

M All enemy units in hex check morale (14.1)


M# Same as M except add # to morale check dice roll.


# a) # step losses to enemy combat units of any type in hex;
b) and # step losses to enemy non-APC transport in hex. 

In each unit category (a and b), first step loss must be taken by unit with best morale status. On “2” or “3” result, assault causes 2 or 3 step losses (respectively) to each category, and at least one of the step losses must be taken by AFV (any type) if  present. Step losses to absent unit categories are ignored (7.63). All surviving units check morale as M2.


M and M# are clear, even the attacker's units and leaders that did not participate in the assault must conduct a morale check. My rationale is bullets flying near me would scare me even if I was behind cover trying to recover morale. But then again, I scare easily.


# is more difficult to interpret because (1) it does not explicitly state the attacker's losses must be taken from those units that participated in the attack, and thus (2) all surviving units is open to interpretation. My take, and that has changed over the years, is the losses can be assigned to any of the attacker's units in the hex, even if they did not participate in the assault. The "All surviving units" become "all enemy units and leaders in the hex".


I have no clue what was the designer's intent so I try to interpret rules as close to RAW as possible. It does not mean my interpretation captured the designer's intent. I believe there is a strong case to be made by your interpretation as being the designer's intent but as there is no way to find out the truth, I will stick to my closer-to-RAW (imo) interpretation. 

[cjsiam]

maybe the problem is "attacker"....

because the player(side) is the attacker---true

but specifically there are units who are the "attackers"....

I'm a little troubled by forcing units who did not take part in the attack suffering casualties...

[Hugmenot]

I'm a little troubled by forcing units who did not take part in the attack suffering casualties...

I bet you would not be the only player to limit the combat results to only the attacking units and leaders that participated in the attack. I know Matt and I did it that way for a while.

I switched to my current interpretation when the attackers suffered yet another "1" result and I eliminated one of their trucks in the process. It finally dawned on me that the truck did not participate in the attack so maybe other units that did not participated in the attack were also affected by the results.

ymmv

[cjsiam]

WELL....carefully reading the rules (annotated copy on the PG-HQ anyway) provides the following:

7.43 Assault

Assault affects all enemy units that participate in the assault combat (12.3). The first step loss in assault must be applied to units with the best morale status (7.63).


So---I think the wall-flowers are free and clear
....they did not participate in the Assault Combat
....All the defenders did---but the attackers are ONLY those who attacked!


So.... as ArchDuke Charles said "Well, there it is!"


cj