Aircraft AT fire

[enrique]

Is there no penalty for airstrikes with AT attack ability in range of enemy AA fire?

Rule 15.14 (Anti-Aircraft) says:

"Apply a -1 column modifier", but in  AT air attacks there are no column modifiers (11.4).

Any suggestions?

[plloyd1010]

True enough when it comes to the RaW. Do you want to do something about it?

The base probability is 1 in 6, the same probability as rolling a 7 on 2 dice. You said that an attacking plane scored a hit on that roll, it would start with the same probability. If you apply a -1 modifier to a dice roll due to AA proximity the plane's chance becomes 5 in 36, or a 17% reduction.

Not enough? Change the AA fire modifier to -2, now you have 33% reduction, because you are only hitting on a 5 now, a 1 in 9 chance.

Still not enough? Change the hit number to 10 or more. Now a -1 cuts the odds of a hit to 1 in 12, a 50% reduction.

Have fun messing with it.

[Coniglius]

I can't speak for WW2, or even fixed wing aircraft for that fact, but I have an old friend who flew attach helicopters in Desert Storm, and he provided a unique insight. He flew Apaches (Gunships) armed with AT missiles as well as a chaingun. One day while we were talking about the ground war phase, he told me that most of the time spent in an attack run was lining up to actually conduct the run. He said that was when you were most vulnerable and once you committed to the run, your choice was to pull out OR brave the AA fire and make the run.
The point is, you have to be entirely focused on the run (and I'm really talking about strafing with the chaingun here, not the fire and forget AT missiles). So maybe there should be a modifier based on enemy AA that determines whether the attack goes in or not. IF the attacking aircraft passes a die roll to conduct an aerial AT attack, then the attack goes in unmolested. If not, then additional 'to hit' modifiers would apply. Just a thought...

[thomaso827]

More often than not, I lose my planes in either the need to roll a 5 or 6 to get one, or in the 1 or 2 roll when I actually get one and they can't find the target. In that part, it feels a bit like the pilot(s) is taking into account the groundfire from everyone with a rifle anyway. It's hard to say what all has been factored into the system. A bit different thing, but I was an aeroscout observer in OH-58 helicopters for 18 months spotting targets for the older Cobras. Only in field exercises, mind you, but most of the pilots I flew with at that point ('78) were Vietnam Vet pilots. I'm not sure which way to go on this issue, so I will need to try it out a bit. Hadn't really had that much aerial AT opportunity in the game yet so something to look at further with the Kursk scenarios where it will play a bigger roll. Another bit of the PG flexibility perhaps.

Tom Oxley

[plloyd1010]

Since the modifier is in the attack resolution, not the arrival/targeting check, I feel that any modifier for AT attacks should probably be there too. Keep in mind that this the better part of squadron showing up, not a single plane.

Going with the attack modifier idea: I think a 1/3 probability drop is reasonable from a statistical and gaming stand point. This could be implemented by rolling 2 dice and making specific hit numbers.

1. Hit number is 7, the AA effect modifier would 2 (plus or minus be irrelevant). Has the advantage of a single number to consider.
   
2. Hit numbers are 9 and 11, the AA modifier would be -1. Has the advantage of the modifier being familiar. Numbers may seem confusing.
   

We haven't discussed this yet for our house rules.

[DAn_Huffman]

Invasion 1944


US Aircraft on the DF Table


  Special rules before the 3 intro scenarios state that US aircraft can eliminate one step of open-top AFV w/a X result.

  2 or 3X result is one step of any other AFV. Closed top I presume. Does that mean 2 steps lost or defender (Germans) lose one step of closed top AFV?

              Thanks