[Rules] 4th Edition rules are up

[campsawyer]

And the saga of the typhoons is going on...

Remember that Typhoons wrecked two German AA guns in an entrenchment on turn 1 (previous post).
Now is 3rd turn of the same Lib'44 scenario ("surprise at the Hamel").
Typhoons come down from the sky again (20 FP this time, not 30).
Miss dr OK. Target : 2 mortars (81mm + 120mm) in another entrenchment on the same hill. 20 FP + 2 (adjacent = new rules) -2 (entrenchment) + 1 (mortars) : dice roll = 12 !!! Exit the mortars.
Nice rockets, I repeat.

If we ever play, we'll use my dice

[tlangston28]

One quick question on 4th ED rules concerning Kommissars:

Rule 6.6 says: "Kommissars are treated as leaders for the purposes of Killing (6.7) and rolling morale, but otherwise do not function as leaders. They serve only to assist demoralized units (of any type including AFVs) to recover (14.4)."

However, 6.65 states: "If a KOM is stacked with a demoralized unit, ... The Soviet player may not pass if he has an unactivated KOM stacked with an unactivated, demoralized non-AFV unit."

Which is it? 3rd edition was non-AFV so I am assuming this is a misprint? However, someone who has never played.... we know the story.

[Hugmenot]

I think 6.6 is fine and the problem is with 6.65.

6.65 Mandatory Re-Education.
If a KOM is stacked with a demoralized unit, he must at some point in the turn be activated and assist the unit in recovery. The Soviet player may not pass if he has an unactivated KOM stacked with an unactivated, demoralized non-AFV unit. If a demoralized non-AFV unit activates to recover, any KOM with them must activate to assist, and non-KOM leaders may not apply their morale modifier for these recovery attempts.

The first sentence is missing "unactivated" in "... with an unactivated, demoralized unit ..." in my opinion.

The second sentences gives the impression the Soviet player can pass if the LOM is stacked with an unactivated, demoralized AFV unit. That appears to be contrary to the first sentence which states the KOM must activate and assist the unit at some point in the turn.

I assume from the third sentence an demoralized AFV can try to self-recover even if stacked with an unactivated KOM. That also appears in opposition to sentence 1.

I suspect the intent was to have some subtle differences between AFV and non-AFV units but I am not sure.

[zaarin7]

I've carried the question over to Consimworld. I'll post any response here.

[Shad]

Just your friendly neighborhood admin dropping by to say that since Peter started this thread on 6/6 we've recorded 51 new plays and only one is marked as having used 4th edition rules: thomaso827 in Saipan #26 with AAR.

What does it all mean, Basil?

[Matt W]

It means that the vast majority of us haven't received a product with the full 4th edition in it yet.

[leonard]

Just your friendly neighborhood admin dropping by to say that since Peter started this thread on 6/6 we've recorded 51 new plays and only one is marked as having used 4th edition rules: thomaso827 in Saipan #26 with AAR.

What does it all mean, Basil?

It means my Lib'44 scenario is not finished, yet.

[campsawyer]

It means that the vast majority of us haven't received a product with the full 4th edition in it yet.

Agreed. It seems that other than Saipan reprints and a few early deliveries of Burning Tigers no one else has the complete set of rules/charts to play game to see how they look. I imagine with APL's Last In, First Out policy of delivery I will not see Burning Tigers until 2018. But that is ok, I am a bit weary of PG right now. On to some oldies but goodies for the moment.

[richvalle]

And AP hasn't posted the 4e charts online yet. Once that happens (if?) I hope to start a 4e game.

[thomaso827]

I'm fairly new to the system and have little time invested in the 3rd edition rules, so learning the new ones seemed the right way to go for me. I've pre-ordered Pusan Perimeter and just ordered Army At Dawn, so these will help, but my plan is to move ahead and use the 4th edition with everything now rather than trying to keep up with both sets of rules. Since I'm pretty much a solo gamer for now, I don't have to worry much about deciding that with somebody else.

Tom Oxley