[Rules] 4th Edition rules are up

[joe_oppenheimer]

Yeah, I really like the gradual wearing down that comes about with disruption, demoralization, and eventually step-loss. Baring overwhelming fire power or a really lucky shot it's not easy to kill things in PG.

[richvalle]

Alan, to be fair, the AA gun has never been able to shoot down planes in PG and thus the problem, if it is a problem, is not new to 4th edition.

From my perspective, the plane counters represent a small portion of the air power supporting the troops on the ground. If some planes were shot down, I don't think it would impact other planes of the same types flying over the battlefield in a later turn.

Daniel, My point is that it looks to now have the planes being too effective, if they can attack AA guns without any threat of there loss.

Since there is new plane draws on future turns it makes more sense to have attacking planes driven off. Or maybe add 1 per AA gun to the miss die roll.

Or maybe just reduce the number of draws a player with planes has. Still effective but maybe not overpowering if they only get 1/2 the draws.

I liked the idea of planes being more effective but I can see the point that maybe they are TOO effective.

Though so far we're basing this whole conversation on one attack example.

[armyduck95]

So, looks like hills are no longer limiting terrain.

You are correct. Remains to be seen if there are still any TEC adjustments for units on hills. They have also applied the "1/2 the distance" rule for lower elevation spotting.

Concerned this will greatly effect play of some earlier scenarios. But oh well.

[leonard]

Alan, to be fair, the AA gun has never been able to shoot down planes in PG and thus the problem, if it is a problem, is not new to 4th edition.

From my perspective, the plane counters represent a small portion of the air power supporting the troops on the ground. If some planes were shot down, I don't think it would impact other planes of the same types flying over the battlefield in a later turn.

Daniel, My point is that it looks to now have the planes being too effective, if they can attack AA guns without any threat of there loss.

Since there is new plane draws on future turns it makes more sense to have attacking planes driven off. Or maybe add 1 per AA gun to the miss die roll.

Or maybe just reduce the number of draws a player with planes has. Still effective but maybe not overpowering if they only get 1/2 the draws.

I liked the idea of planes being more effective but I can see the point that maybe they are TOO effective.

Though so far we're basing this whole conversation on one attack example.

Obviously, I skipped the 'miss' die roll in my description. There IS a +1 to the miss die roll so that the chance to miss the target was 50%. Thereafter there is another -1 column on Direct fire for AA gun within 3 hexes of the target and -2 for entrenchment...
These rockets should really be powerful. But the final result (X2) still was lucky (dice roll = 11). Don't panic.

[leonard]

And the saga of the typhoons is going on...

Remember that Typhoons wrecked two German AA guns in an entrenchment on turn 1 (previous post).
Now is 3rd turn of the same Lib'44 scenario ("surprise at the Hamel").
Typhoons come down from the sky again (20 FP this time, not 30).
Miss dr OK. Target : 2 mortars (81mm + 120mm) in another entrenchment on the same hill. 20 FP + 2 (adjacent = new rules) -2 (entrenchment) + 1 (mortars) : dice roll = 12 !!! Exit the mortars.
Nice rockets, I repeat.

[richvalle]

I just had a whole turn like that in my face-to-face Fronte Russo game. For that one turn I just couldn't miss. I was rolling 11 and 12's and 2's and 3's all over the place. It was silly. I just started taking shots at 2 and 4 and hitting. I manged to empty out an Ent hill hex though OBA and many pot shots.

Then we went to lunch and my die rolls became normal again.

Anyway, the point being the rule version isn't going change lucky die rolls.

[Brett Nicholson]

There may be a slight glitch with the new aircraft rules in regards to friendly fire. An airstrike is conducted on the DF table against the target -fine, nothing new but the friendly fire, if it misses the intended target is conducted with the bombardment table. So with the new bombardment friendly fire rules the attack is made regularily instead of rolling a D6 to determine the column. Again, the aircraft has DF values so are the DF values now transfered and configured on the bombardment table? Maybe the new 4th edition bombardment table handles this but I didn't see anything mentioned in the 4th edition core rules or did I miss something?

[Hugmenot]

Can I borrow those dice, Leonard?

[leonard]

Sorry. D-Day scenarios dice rolls, only.

[campsawyer]

There may be a slight glitch with the new aircraft rules in regards to friendly fire. An airstrike is conducted on the DF table against the target -fine, nothing new but the friendly fire, if it misses the intended target is conducted with the bombardment table. So with the new bombardment friendly fire rules the attack is made regularily instead of rolling a D6 to determine the column. Again, the aircraft has DF values so are the DF values now transfered and configured on the bombardment table? Maybe the new 4th edition bombardment table handles this but I didn't see anything mentioned in the 4th edition core rules or did I miss something?

Good point, this is an oversight.