[Rules] 4th Edition rules are up

[leonard]

New aircraft rules.

My friend and regular face to face opponent recently chose the first scenario of Liberation 44, "surprise at the hamel", to first try Lib'44 and the new rules.
I've got the Brits. 1st turn : I get a Typhoon aircraft (30 FP + 1 antitank).
After some exchange of fire, the typhoons plunge onto the slope hex where a 20mm AA and a 88 (initially hidden) take cover in an Entrenchment.
New rules : 30 FP + 2 columns for adjacent +1 for AA target - Entrenchment and AA presence within 3 hexes.
Die roll is 11 ; result is X2 !
Wow ! Real rockets at last !!

[campsawyer]

New aircraft rules.

My friend and regular face to face opponent recently chose the first scenario of Liberation 44, "surprise at the hamel", to first try Lib'44 and the new rules.
I've got the Brits. 1st turn : I get a Typhoon aircraft (30 FP + 1 antitank).
After some exchange of fire, the typhoons plunge onto the slope hex where a 20mm AA and a 88 (initially hidden) take cover in an Entrenchment.
New rules : 30 FP + 2 columns for adjacent +1 for AA target - Entrenchment and AA presence within 3 hexes.
Die roll is 11 ; result is X2 !
Wow ! Real rockets at last !!

Glad you like it, but I am thinking that the AA gun should be some type of way of shooting down the planes, especially if the plane attacks it. Seems there is a little too much advantage for a plane attacking AA without the threat of loss.

[Hugmenot]

Alan, to be fair, the AA gun has never been able to shoot down planes in PG and thus the problem, if it is a problem, is not new to 4th edition.

From my perspective, the plane counters represent a small portion of the air power supporting the troops on the ground. If some planes were shot down, I don't think it would impact other planes of the same types flying over the battlefield in a later turn.

[zaarin7]

I can see a need for an optional rule here. Weapons of 20mm to 57mm should be able to shoot at aircraft. After all, that's why they were there and if they can't then this is a major flaw in this system.

[thomaso827]

Would it be possible that AA qualified weapons get an OP fire shot at aircraft before the attack, that a successful AA shot represents not just shooting them down but forcing them to abort that particular shot, or reduce their impact when they do attack?

[vince hughes]

I think the +2 for adjacent is too generous.

It may have been better to make this variable from 0 to +2 dependent on dice roll and mitigating factors such as

a) Presence of AA (ie within 3 hexes)
b) Aircraft attacking AA guns not committed to AA fire
c) Aircraft attacking AA guns comitted to AA fire.

It should be considered that when we hear of aircraft dominating the skies and say in 44, Allied aircraft taking out German columns. This is due to many many sorties and the numbers of AFV's and troops hit over 24 hours is proportionally quite low WHEN considered against a solitary sortie in PG getting a 30+col attack. If one side has air support either every turn or every other turn, then I can tell you that the effect will be well over the top.

[waynebaumber]

Totally agree with Vince on this one, I am thinking of early war scenario's in particular , the Germans don't need too help much anyway and a couple of Stuka attacks on the 45 column could really swing a scenario.
I am not saying it not realistic I am saying it may spoil some scenarios as games.

[joe_oppenheimer]

I was pretty surprised that the +2 made it into 4th ed. People had asked about this in the past and it was always ruled as not a modifier that should apply to planes.

[campsawyer]

Alan, to be fair, the AA gun has never been able to shoot down planes in PG and thus the problem, if it is a problem, is not new to 4th edition.

From my perspective, the plane counters represent a small portion of the air power supporting the troops on the ground. If some planes were shot down, I don't think it would impact other planes of the same types flying over the battlefield in a later turn.

Daniel, My point is that it looks to now have the planes being too effective, if they can attack AA guns without any threat of there loss.

[campsawyer]

I think the +2 for adjacent is too generous.

To build upon Vince's point, each shift in the tables is a major adjustment, if there keeps this trend to add more modifiers and increase firepower, all attacks with be on the 45 column all the time. There needs to be more of a balance and more of the morale in the game rather than just blowing stuff up.

This I believe is the problem with the direction that the game has turned. Rather than being worn down by morale and the fighting the latest rules and games too have gone. Morale seems a secondary issue to the destruction of units. I would rather see more morale related losses that the straight X loss.