4TH EDITION TABLE RELEASED.

[Brett Nicholson]

I guess maybe I have some form of ADD or have trouble in commiting a large amount of rules to memory at once. I am still learning 3rd edition core rules as I go, especially with the shared shared matches where Vince or Wayne are able to point things out to me that I have missed or misunderstood in the past. Just now starting using the hidden AT gun rule in shared matches and now it's something I expect to use in all future ftf games. Once I have all 3rd edtion rules committed to memory (if that is at all possible) then maybe after that I could contemplate a new ruleset? Well, I am at least hoping this opportunity fire business is not the first of many changes to the system. I think it was PY that used the term Luddite?

[plloyd1010]

I think it was PY that used the term Luddite?

I that would be Ned's boss. One of my opponents often says that. We keep a handy-reference guide with us at all times. I know about Vince's hidden AT guns. It's a good idea.

[Hugmenot]

Entrenchments

4th edition: –2 Target hex contains entrenchment (–1 if entrenchment is in other limiting terrain)
3rd edition: –2 target hex contains entrenchment (–1 if entrenchment is in town or woods hex)

Entrenchments will not be as effective in limiting terrain other than towns and woods. Unless limiting terrain is defined differently in 4th edition, this would mean an entrenchment on a hill or field hex (both which do not cause negative column shifts of the firing unit is at the same or higher elevation) gives only a -1 column shift.

I will wait until I see the new limiting terrain definition before I grumble.

Light Woods

4th edition: –1 Target occupies or is fired at through one hex of light woods or light jungle
3rd edition: The application is different from module to module.

I am happy they settled on my favorite interpretation of light woods.

Smoke

4th edition: –1 Unit fires into or out of smoke hex
3rd edition: No modifier

I can now lay smoke adjacent to a town hex and move troops into the smoke hex to assault the town hex next turn. While I like it, it will have an effect on existing scenarios if smoke becomes too readily available.

Hedgerow Hexside

4th edition: –1 Target unit is fired at through a hedgerow hexside not adjacent to firing unit
3rd edition: I don't recall the different interpretations

I am fine with this, even it's a change. I will be curious to see how firing along a hedgerow hexside will be interpreted.

Elevation/Hill

4th edition: –1 Target hex is on higher elevation than firing unit
3rd edition: –1 target hex is hill (any elevation)

My preference would be the -1 would also apply to target hex on the same elevation as the firing unit. This one will affect my solitaire plays.

Night/Weather

4th edition: –1 Target hex is fired on when spotting range 1 or 2 due to night or weather
3rd edition: –1 night turn

I like the new wording. I am curious to see the illumination shell rules.

Engineers

4th edition: +1 Target hex contains unit being assisted in river crossing by ENG (5.7)
3rd edition: +1 target hex contains units being assisted in river crossing by engineer (5.7)

I don't like the "ENG" used because it may give rise to arguments about whether this also applies to "SAP" for example. I much prefer the old wording.

Opportunity Fire

4th edition: +1 Opportunity fire (13.0) vs. personnel unit
3rd edition: +1 opportunity fire (13.0)

Opportunity direct fire will be less effective against AFV's and loaded transports. May give rise to trucks driving adjacent to an enemy unit and then unloading; it's safer to do it that way than having the foot unit move adjacent to a enemy unit (assuming nothing with an AT value can fire at the transport).

[zaarin7]

That's a nice summery of the differences. I hope somebody who has access to the 4th ed has already put together a summery of the rules differences to help those of us familiar with 3rd ed. Not that I'm asking it to post it till 4th ed is out. But if anybody who has the rules has looked at them and found it different enough to cause a little confusion a little prior preparation would be very appreciated.

[vince hughes]

Keith,

I think only JS and MB at present know what forms the 4th ed are actually going to end up being.

[campsawyer]

That's a nice summery of the differences. I hope somebody who has access to the 4th ed has already put together a summery of the rules differences to help those of us familiar with 3rd ed. Not that I'm asking it to post it till 4th ed is out. But if anybody who has the rules has looked at them and found it different enough to cause a little confusion a little prior preparation would be very appreciated.

During the discussion, there was a proposal for some sort of ID for new/changes to the rules in the 4th edition. But it does not look good for this feature making it to the final production as the sample chart that has be release also had changes to make it easier to read and those were not incorporated.

[campsawyer]

I will be curious to see how firing along a hedgerow hexside will be interpreted.

Basically, the Airborne rules are suppose to be ditched and the FoF 40 SSR will be used.

May give rise to trucks driving adjacent to an enemy unit and then unloading

It will still be pretty dangerous. Trucks are unarmored and subject to morale checks as well as the AT shots. Bigger effect will be on APC's being a little more impervious to DF.

[waynebaumber]

This thread bodes well for the 4th Edition rules. NOT. Can you imagine the fun we will have when we finally see the whole rule set

[Brett Nicholson]

Well, I suppose that we were all warned with the " 4th Editon rules: comment now or forever shut your trap" thread. I don't know for the life of me why I didn't speak up then post then: "Whatever you developers do DON'T CHANGE THE OPPORTUNITY FIRE RULE". Oh fiddlesticks, the rules and gameplayers just keep getting newer and younger and I just keep getting older and grumpier -HUMBUG.

[campsawyer]

Well, I suppose that we were all warned with the " 4th Editon rules: comment now or forever shut your trap" thread. I don't know for the life of me why I didn't speak up then post then: "Whatever you developers do DON'T CHANGE THE OPPORTUNITY FIRE RULE". Oh fiddlesticks, the rules and gameplayers just keep getting newer and younger and I just keep getting older and grumpier -HUMBUG.

Brett, It is not the players but the development process. There is a lot of "black box" issues of putting the content in one way but it comes out another. Unfortunately it is a issue of APL development process.