04-08-2014, 01:06 AM,
(This post was last modified: 04-08-2014, 01:22 AM by larry marak.)
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larry marak
Recruit
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Posts: 1,343
Threads: 194
Joined: May 2012
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RE: Duplicate Supplements and Games
Plloyd, if you could send me a copy of the PDF for Lions I'd appreciate it. Always good to see what the original version of scenarios and the original map choices were.
While so far there have been only a few redevelopment-reissues of PG games, I have kept them all. For that matter I have doubled up on many of the core games so I can put the materials I need for specific supplements, including maps, in one box, and I have bought "black silk boxes" from Avalanche when they were offered for this purpose.
With the number of map panels now available from PG, MPG, IA, and oneday ACWPG (it was announced some time ago as being under development) you can gain infinite variety in the SAME scenario by retaining the order of battle but giving the forces a different battlefield to maneuver on. That's the value of keeping, say, the first and second editions of Edelweis, identical orders of battle often meet over different map-panel selections.
Re: Saipan my understanding is the second coming of that game will only include 4th edition rules and charts, and mapboards very slightly revised.. specifically a few less palm trees and better contrast, hence the offer a while back for those of use who received unplayable boards to purchase the new brighter map set that expired March 26th.
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04-08-2014, 06:55 AM,
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vince hughes
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 1,310
Threads: 61
Joined: May 2012
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RE: Duplicate Supplements and Games
Funny Jay started this thread.
By coincidence, I was reading a scenario book in my '20 minute' study room as I often do. I was perusing 'Red Warriors' and noticed scenario 10 'From The March'. It represents the Soviet 1st Guards Mot. Division's attack around Nikonovo and Maloe Kropotovo on the date it shows as 27th November 1942. It also states that the 1st & 3rd Guards Mot. Regts suffered around 50% killed let alone wounded missing etc. Then scenario 13 "Red God of War-Reviakhin's Rifleman" again shows 1st Guards Mot. attacking in the area.
The book also has "Feldwebel Schaeffer" and "The Struggle for Urdom" as well as many other scenarios.
The reason I noticed these was because of my on-going monster scenario with Wayne Baumber in the Tank Battles book, Hells Fury III. This too has the battle around Nikonovo, but dated the 30th November rather than the 27th. Of course, these could be different regts than the 1st & 3rd Gds Mot ?, but the battle (and admittedly the casualties we are seeing on them in our game) sounds similar to the RW battle. Also interesting is that the Tank Battles, to name but two scenarios, one being Feldwebel Schaeffer. Same forces and boards involved, but different VC's. It also has "The Struggle for Urdom", but different boards, different German forces, same Soviets and similar albeit slightly different VC's.
So it appears in RW & TB, I do have some 'duplicates' albeit of a different hue from each other perhaps therefore making them not duplicates ? Looking at the examples given, there certainly are enough differences to play each scenario from each booklet without fear of repeating an experience.
An odd thing that does stand out for me is between "Hells Fury III" in TB and "From The March" in RW. Both battles have the towns of Nikonovo, Maloe Kropotovo and Podisinovka. Now you would think the geography would not change. However, due to the use of different boards the supplements chose to use they are arraigned as thus. In TB, the 3 towns are in a straight line running east from Nikonovo to west through Maloe and onwards to Podisinovka. They are all joined by one straight road. In RW they are in a C shape with NIkonovo in the east. Maloe Kropotovo to the west of it and then Podisinovka back east from Maloe but south of Nikonovo ?
So having read all this ... The point ? None but some banal trivia on the same subject and my realisation that there were 'close' duplicates between the two ............ despite some Continental drift in some scenarios !
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04-08-2014, 08:25 AM,
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rerathbun
Master Sergeant
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Posts: 538
Threads: 63
Joined: May 2012
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RE: Duplicate Supplements and Games
(04-08-2014, 12:16 AM)plloyd1010 Wrote: Robin, I have a PDF of Lions of Finland, if you are interested (leader errors & all). I got it with an email discussion with Mike B. a while back. I think some other forum member scanned it for us.
I also may have the original Red Fury & Spanish Blues. It became part of Blue Division #15 I think.
Thanks. I also have the PDF of the scenario book. I'm still hoping to get the counters (either stickered or unstickered), more as a collection/history thing.
The scenarios can all be played with the Arctic Front (or AF Deluxe) counters. In fact, I'm somewhat surprised that no one has gone for the Lions of Finland ribbon yet.
Robin
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