[Rules] 8.4 Elevation makes no sense to me

[campsawyer]

In my opinion, yes.

But I think I am the only one thinking this way :-D

Yes, I believe you are at the moment. Generally I would still be inclined to combine the fire into the largest BF attack, but the option of ripple firing larger guns is something that I have done with on board guns, this extends it to OBA too.

[vince hughes]

Interesting.

If the idea of on board artillery with BF capability stacked together, activates, it can have each unit fire at a different or the same hex in multiple attacks. Does this extend to OBA?

Nope. Once again its going down the road of adding your own words to the written word.

7.33 para.3 specifically sites off board artillery with no mention of "On board artillery" mechanics. I have to express my surprise at any other interpretation of qa very simple rule.

[Hugmenot]

That brings back some memories.

When I started playing PG, I played as if I could activate all OBA factors in one activation segment to conduct as many attacks as I wanted as long as I did not combine more than 3 factors in a single attack. I did not find where it was stated I could activate only 3 factors per activation segment.

Note the maximum of OBA factors in Modern PG that can be activated in a single activation segment is 3; as stated stated in 3.14. We'll see if that clarification was added to the Panzer Grenadier 4th edition rules.

[Poor Yorek]

Just FYI, a related (to the OBA matter) thread from some time ago.

http://www.pg-hq.com/comms/showthread.ph...88#pid2188

[campsawyer]

Interesting.

If the idea of on board artillery with BF capability stacked together, activates, it can have each unit fire at a different or the same hex in multiple attacks. Does this extend to OBA?

Nope. Once again its going down the road of adding your own words to the written word.

7.33 para.3 specifically sites off board artillery with no mention of "On board artillery" mechanics. I have to express my surprise at any other interpretation of qa very simple rule.

Yes it does specify for OBA, but it looks to be just clarifying that no more than 3 modules can combined. Nothing stated about how they can be used but the example in the rules, it does leave this as an option. Nothing said about the number of attacks or multiple hexes, leaving one to speculate. The only item that has been clarified is that only 3 modules may be activated at once, stated in the annotated rules.

I leave it up to debate.

[russ]

Played scenario 2 of Elsenborn Ridge today. (FWIW this time the Germans slaughtered the US and won a major victory.)

The system is clicking better. 18-turn scenario took 4 hours or so.

There is a lot of fiddly counter shuffling. It seems to be wise to set up big stacks spread out individually in a line beside the map with a marker on the map to indicate where the line of units are, and then disrupt/demoralized markers can go beside them instead of on top of them too.

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Just FYI, a related (to the OBA matter) thread from some time ago.

http://www.pg-hq.com/comms/showthread.ph...88#pid2188

Excellent, thanks for that link. So hopefully my 3rd solo play will be all correct with respect to OBA at least.

So it seems that the printed rules (and even the online annotated rules too) don't specify that you CAN target different hexes with your 3 off-board artillery strikes in the same action... but officially you can, right? You don't have to combine them against a single target in a single action of OBA strikes, based on that linked thread.

Thanks again to all of y'all for the helpful comments and answers in this thread! Very nice to have an active helpful online community for the game.

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About 8.4 and elevation:

FWIW I took a look at the Combat Commander maps to see why its elevation/LOS rules seem so much clearer and realized that its maps are drawn so that every hex which has an elevation change line ("crest" in CC jargon) is such that the center of the hex is at the upper elevation and the entire hex is thus considered at the upper elevation.

The PG maps don't seem to be consistent that way: there are elevation lines in some hexes which seem (by the naturalistic artwork) to be intended to be at the lower elevation, so that a unit one hex further back "up the hill" wouldn't be able to see over the crest line in the hex in front of it (if I understand the hazy intent of the rules), which seemed weird

So for playing my second scenario today, I just decided to treat all hexes with a crest line as being at the higher, not lower elevation, ignoring the occasional seeming contradiction between that and the naturalistic artwork, and this made the elevation/LOS work fine, consistently, and simply for me...

[richvalle]

Trying to get a grip on this OBA question. So the consensus is that in one activation segment you can activate 3 factors of oba (3x16 for example) and in that AS hit 3 different hexes (all viewed from the same leader that is doing the spotting or up to 3 separate leaders?), hit 1 hex with 2 factors (16x2) and other hex with 1x16 or one hex with all 3?

That is definitely not how I've been playing it. We've been activating up to 3 factors and only able to drop it onto one hex in a AS.

rv

[richvalle]

And, furthermore, if you drop 3x16 onto one hex you could do 3 separate attacks at 16 each if you wanted to?

[vince hughes]

Yes it does specify for OBA, but it looks to be just clarifying that no more than 3 modules can combined. Nothing stated about how they can be used but the example in the rules, it does leave this as an option. Nothing said about the number of attacks or multiple hexes, leaving one to speculate. The only item that has been clarified is that only 3 modules may be activated at once, stated in the annotated rules.

I leave it up to debate.

LOL - This always make me laugh when people say "The rules do not say"

Well the rules do not say that if you throw a rotten tomato in the face of an opponent then you can claim victory. As the rules do not say that is wrong, then I presume its reasonable to assume its a valid claim to victory ?

It is these silly debates on clearly written rules .... And I say clearly written so that nobody can once again claim they are open to interpretation and poorly written, that put people off dual play. It is worrying to think that another player may have the wildest interpretation.

Once again, I DO stress, the rules clearly state in 7.33

"Up to 3 OBA modules".......... it mentions no more "may be combined to attack ONE attack PER ACTION SEGMENT".

It is really that simple.

Finally, to reverse the situation, where does it say 3 individual attacks may be inacted per activation ?

[vince hughes]

And, furthermore, if you drop 3x16 onto one hex you could do 3 separate attacks at 16 each if you wanted to?

Again no,

9.33 says 3 x off board values may combine into ONE fire value. You are making three fire values so that contravenes the rule.

7.33 says 3 x OBA factors may be combined into ONE attack PER ACTION segment. Clearly not three attacks.