Which StGIIIG in Elsenborn Ridge

[vince hughes]

What AT gun is on the Elsenborn Ridge StGIIIG ?

Is it the 5-8 or 6-8 version ?

[campsawyer]

What AT gun is on the Elsenborn Ridge StGIIIG ?

Is it the 5-8 or 6-8 version ?

6-8 for both Heer and SS

[vince hughes]

What AT gun is on the Elsenborn Ridge StGIIIG ?

Is it the 5-8 or 6-8 version ?

6-8 for both Heer and SS

Cheers Al,

That'll help !

[larry marak]

This begs the question, what is the diffence in guns or ammo between the two versions of the StuGIIIG???????

[vince hughes]

I'd like to credit AP with some background knowledge as to why these should be different despite being the same vehicle. And I have even read people on other forums defend these different numbers giving such reasons as 'better trained crews in that campaign' or 'more ammo available in this campaign'.

But to be honest ................. I think it was just errata and something that has not been cleaned up ? Therefore, the only fair thing to do is to use the correct counter from whatever box set it came out of.

Another glaring example. I have Wehrmacht HMG's that on their reduced side can be either a 4-5 or a 5-5.

[Shad]

I have Wehrmacht HMG's that on their reduced side can be either a 4-5 or a 5-5.

I'm pretty sure that's due to different average humidity in the operational environments affecting the rifling of the bullet as it travels down the barrel and therefore the overall accuracy.

Reducing the factor 20% might be a bit over the top, but we can't do decimal fire values, so I think using 4s in some places and 5s in others is a reasonable compromise.





Ok, confess. How many of you believed that bullshit?

[Dean_P]

I have Wehrmacht HMG's that on their reduced side can be either a 4-5 or a 5-5.

I'm pretty sure that's due to different average humidity in the operational environments affecting the rifling of the bullet as it travels down the barrel and therefore the overall accuracy.

Reducing the factor 20% might be a bit over the top, but we can't do decimal fire values, so I think using 4s in some places and 5s in others is a reasonable compromise.

Ok, confess. How many of you believed that bullshit?

It also had to do with the reduced number of rotations of the grooves in the barrels. That imparted fewer RPMs on the shell, thus resulting in lower accuracy and hence less damage.



I didn't believe it, just thought I could top it...

[larry marak]

Are there StuGIIIF's in the system? Its been a design principle in PG that one type can represent several similar variants, reducing the need for counters with an AT factor of 6& 1/4 for instance.

I guess I need to know which games call for the weaker gun on the StugGIIIG.

[campsawyer]

Larry, There are some A's and B's but nothing between them and the G's and H's. To see what games they are in go over to the library and forces, you can see where they are are.

[larry marak]

Of course, posting before thinking. While I can't access the armies feature with my home MSNTV.2 IE6 emulator, I'll be able to check it out at work tomorrow. I do have a printout of the page for the StuGIIIB, which indicates the A&B models and a gap going to the G.

There were about 8 variants to the StuGIIIG, but they differed mainly in additional armor skirting to defend against "useless" panzer-rifles, and upgrading the crews machine gun. Nothing inside the G model to indicate two different AP strengths. The F model (L43) had considerably lesser armor penetration at close range (1000m) , but almost identical penetration at maximum range (2000m) to the gun used in the G (L48), so maybe you could make a case for the F being the lesser type G.