Death of the 'Draw' Result ?

[vince hughes]

Of my 135 battles against opponents, there have been 24 draws. That's about one in every 5.6 games.

In 2011, of 35 games against opponents, there were no less than 13 draws ! That's one in every 2.75 games. Twice as much as the average. This equated at the time to a total of 23 draws in 98 games. Roughly a quarter.

Having compiled my 2012 'war' stats against opponents, I had just 1 draw in no less than 37 battles, meaning that no less than 36 were resulted to an outright winner ?

Quite a swing away from the drawn battle result. I wonder whether that was simply scenarios chosen or a different way of playing amongst the games group ?

[Shad]

Have you shifted much in your scenario sources? I think draws were a lot more prevalent in the older games due to lazy scenario victory condition designs... (how many times have you read "...any other result is a draw." Ugh.)

[JayTownsend]

Shad that is life, not everyhting is a clear victory, there is going to be some Draws!

[waynebaumber]

I have just had two FtF draws on the trot and I am hoping to make it three, am I not, young Vince.

Both those draws were from Fall of France and my last solo draw was from Panzer Lehr both newer modules so that shoots holes in Shads theory

[Matt W]

i know that some of Daniel and my games that have ended up as draws have been some of the most hotly contested games we have played. i don't have disdain for a draw, but then again I enjoy soccer and tournament ice hockey...

[Hugmenot]

I have no problems whatsoever in hotly contested games to end in a draw. Matt and I had several such games and there was always a feeling that I've accomplished something.

I have a problem with draw conditions in scenarios such As Airborne IE - Orange Hero, when the game is a draw unless one side is willing to try for a victory despite said attempt being much more likely to lead into defeat. There should be some balance between risk and rewards if the starting position is a draw.

A scenario can be unbalanced and fun. For example, Indian Unity - Hyderabad Lancers, favors the Hyderabadis in my opinion but I had fun trying to accomplish my objectives as the Indian commander. It did not matter that most objectives were very difficult, the starting position is a loss if the Indians do nothing and thus I had to move forward.

[vince hughes]

Was this the commentators curse in action ?

Mentioning the lack of draws lately and yet Wayne and I just fought "The Chosen" # 2 from Red Warriors to a draw .. LOL

[larry marak]

You may be getting fewer draws due to increasing experience with the system. PG plays out with what seem to be very realistic results. By the time you've played 7 years you (potentially) are more experienced than any Commonwealth commander in World War 2. One of the saving graces of this game is the FOW procedure (which needs tweeking for handling larger scenarios); it reduces the influence of "perfect play" on the scenario's balance.

[Hugmenot]

I've logged 32 shared plays so far.

32 Shared Plays, Average Score = 3.63
11 Wins, Average Score = 3.73
14 Losses, Average Score = 3.64
7 Draws, Average Score = 3.43

The lower rating for draws does not surprise me because there were a couple scenarios in which Matt and I just sat pat for the last turn or two because taking active actions was far more likely to bring defeat than victory.

I do note that 3.43 for these Shared Plays, Draws is higher than my global average (3.35).

[vince hughes]

Boring draws tend to come from scenarios where AT START, you look at the scenario and either decide to 'Go' for the draw cos' a win looks too difficult or suicidal OR the draw just looks inevitable anyway.

On the other hand, Draws are fun when you drag out a 'draw' result from what was going to be a defeat position. I can think of 3 games where I managed that and they were certainly tight, tense, fun and exciting endings !

Classic Draws in my PG career have been:

AK 45 - Fort Capuzzo: My Italians dug a draw from retiring British content with victory when a snake eyes roll on the 7col X result then inflicted enough step losses against the British in the last turn

BSS 7 - Head On: 12th Hohenstaufen pull off a last turn exit having inflicted enough damage on British forces. The exits secured the draw.

WS 21 - Paratroopers Prevail: 277th Volksgrenadiers pull off an unlikely exit as an OBA strike demolishes open-topped US armour blocking the path with a 2X result hit in penultimate turn. The road was then open and off went the VG's.

NW 6 - Night of the Liberators: Defeat was on the cards for a force of StG's against US tanks until the over confident Yank tins missed what was thought to be a sitter of a shot. The surviving StG's replied and ripped out the US tanks to pull out an unexpected draw.

SAW 14 - Australia Will Be There: This is my favourite draw from the group "always looked like a draw from first reading". But boy ! Was this a good bloody slug-fest and plain simple fun PG.