Cheating on Panzer Grenadier

[Shad]

What don't you like about it?

Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Action. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Fire for no effect. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard.

Seems to be how our games go.

[campsawyer]

What don't you like about it?

Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Action. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Fire for no effect. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard. Discard.

Seems to be how our games go.

Ok, its the cards. CDG's are either a love or a hate. I have had others comment that the game is to random and chaotic, but that's what war is.

[Shad]

I can accept random. For me it has always been the inability to string together even 2 coherent actions. The battle has no logical flow, randomized a bit or otherwise.

[campsawyer]

I can accept random. For me it has always been the inability to string together even 2 coherent actions. The battle has no logical flow, randomized a bit or otherwise.

Card management is the key to the game. Yes, you may burn though some cards, but as the song says "You have to know when to hold them."

The lack of flow is the chaos that people don't like. All of a sudden and event or sniper can put an end to an attack can be devastating, but sometimes it works in your favor. Also with the chaos, each scenario will not play the same twice, so there is plenty of replay.

At least you did say that you did not like it due to lack of tanks

[Shad]

The tank complaint always struck me as asinine. If there were tanks on the box, that'd be another thing entirely.

Perhaps someday we can play it together, Alan. As I said above, the masses love it so much, and I find it so painful, that I still am suspicious that we are simply playing it wrong somehow.

I am still willing to log a few more trial sessions with a seasoned CC veteran before I finally say "OK, I REALLY DO HATE IT"

[campsawyer]

The tank complaint always struck me as asinine. If there were tanks on the box, that'd be another thing entirely.

Perhaps someday we can play it together, Alan. As I said above, the masses love it so much, and I find it so painful, that I still am suspicious that we are simply playing it wrong somehow.

I am still willing to log a few more trial sessions with a seasoned CC veteran before I finally say "OK, I REALLY DO HATE IT"

Yes, I am willing to play. As for strategy for a good game, I find I need to card manage religiously. Hold some cards for the future, even though it may be a few turns down the line to use them.

Good thing about CC, there is a VASSAL module for it and all the supplements.

[J6A]

I'd be happy to VASSAL it. I've played it 7 or 8 times. I'm slowly learning to control the chaos and sometimes just get rid of that ambush card for its other effect. There are others. To me, CC is a lot about exploiting opportunities you are given. Sometimes it takes a while to set up the move you want, and random events can throw in a monkey wrench, and overall, if you plan for a result, you are likely to get that result (unless the "dice" hate you).

[Shad]

Yeah CC's VASSAL support has always been pretty outstanding!

[campsawyer]

Speaking of Ambush cards, I had one opponent that held an Ambush card all game and could never get a chance to use it. I asked after why he held it and not used it for the other Fire order. He said he needed it for any Melee that came up. None ever occurred, but he wouldn't give it up because he thought he needed it. This had two effects, one he never used the Fire to possibly OP fire me, as there was more maneuvering in scenario than close in fighting and more important denying him one more card in his hand and reducing his orders by capability 25%. So the bottomline is that there is many ways to win and many ways to lose.

[awdougherty]

I don't mind Combat Commander, like I said, for the times when I just don't really care. There's not a ton of point in thinking too hard beyond just sitting on cards for a while. I find all the moving pieces kind of clever but I think as a whole it's a pretty weak experience, but it's so light that I treat it like a filler experience in between the real stuff. My FtF opponent is a big fan of the series, so he has a good time getting it to the table and I get to turn my brain off for a night and just hang out.

For me, my frustration with the game diminished when I stopped thinking about how I can't do anything and started thinking about how I won't do anything once I got a useful card or two (yeah, I know... that's why I'll never think of Combat Commander as a great game).

Also, for my taste, I don't think it's fair to lump all CDGs together. Combat Commander is a fairly unique, polarizing extreme. In classic CDGs, there are events or op points, so you always have a choice to do something. Combat Commander goes for the more cock block approach, if you'll pardon the expression, and I don't know why people would design a game that cock blocks you (or why people loved being cock blocked so much).