The distant AT Guns wish to skeedaddle....

[cjsiam]

So....
We have a Set of AT guns, set up in Town--at >3 hexes which have Fired at some tanks which strolled into range.....
They are thus SPOTTED...subject to DF, and Bombardment(with leader in range)

They then Limber----Does that constitute a MOVE?(Opp fire) Does the SPOTTED apply to the Limbered guns?

Trucks then Load them--- Does that constitute a MOVE?(Opp fire) Does the Spotted transfer to the Trucks (at least as big and visible as the guns)
   as they Load?

We are using the DB rules---but I think this transcends that...

[Blackcloud6]

8.22 says: Because spotted units lose their spotted status when they leave their original hex and enter another limiting terrain hex, they cannot be fired upon with opportunity fire during this movement unless the firing unit(s) can spot the target in both hexes. 

So I would say the guns remain spotted. I don't think the spotted status would transfer to the trucks as there is no provision for such a transfer in the rules, but it does not matter as the guns are still spotted until they move away and the bad guys can fire on the hex affecting all.

[cjsiam]

I'm a little troubled by this....In general I do agree that the guns remain spotted---but...
As the Weapons units are loaded onto Trucks---how can the Trucks Not be exposed and spotted as well?

In BC6's Analysis there is no ability to apply DF/AT/BF to the Trucks---which I WOULD THINK (and I did not ever do this
in the military (or anything in the actual military)) if the Trucks are loading spotted guns (someone has eyes on them)
the Trucks get "eyed" as well...and thus spotted....and thus ALL forms of DF/AT/BF become possible on the Trucks as
the Guns are Attached and Ammunition put into the Trucks---
The Trucks should then be viable targets if they are in Range of Any weapons system who could fire at spotted targets.

Maybe the issue is the SHOULD be a Transfer of spotting status to Trucks loading spotted weapons systems?...
If the Active player is smart, the player has a brief OF chance--and the need to take it immediately, or they miss the chance...
Other then "there is currently no rule for this" --- how is this flawed?

[cjsiam]

I'm a little troubled by this....In general I do agree that the guns remain spotted---but...
As the Weapons units are loaded onto Trucks---how can the Trucks Not be exposed and spotted as well?

In BC6's Analysis there is no ability to apply DF/AT/BF to the Trucks---which I WOULD THINK (and I did not ever do this
in the military (or anything in the actual military)) if the Trucks are loading spotted guns (someone has eyes on them)
the Trucks get "eyed" as well...and thus spotted....and thus ALL forms of DF/AT/BF become possible on the Trucks as
the Guns are Attached and Ammunition put into the Trucks---
The Trucks should then be viable targets if they are in Range of Any weapons system who could fire at spotted targets.

Maybe the issue is there SHOULD be a Transfer of spotting status to Trucks loading spotted weapons systems?...
If the Active player is smart, the player has a brief OF chance--and the need to take it immediately, or they miss the chance...
Other then "there is currently no rule for this" --- how is this flawed?

[cjsiam]

So we all agree that we should make a rule?

[Grognard Gunny]

I agree with cjsiam on this one...... BUT, it would then need a "situational rule change" to rectify. I, for one (mainly because of a rather shaky memory), am against "rule changes" for each and every "unusual circumstance" that rears it's ugly head in the game. I go with the old adage  that it "is but a game" and you cannot make a board game into reality (no matter how much we try). That is my view on the matter... I will go with the flow.

GG

[cjsiam]

So I would propose some wording like this.

When a unit (do we need to differentiate personnel vs. weapons???) has had a spotted marker, due to it's firing or through recce, and is 
currently visible to an enemy unit---It remains spotted as it limbers(as a weapon unit), and as it loads (either?) the transport--as long as they
are in the same hex.  In the case of loading--the spotted markers will apply to the transport--while in the same hex.

At the point of moving to a new hex, the spotted marker is removed, and normal LOS visibility/spotting rules will apply.

This basically reflects that units that have revealed themselves through firing and become spotted are still spotted until they leave the
hex, regardless of limber and/or loading into vehicles....

I think this is within the mechanic, supported easily, and tracks what limitations should remain on units which have
become spotted and known to enemy observers.

Your mileage may vary....

[Blackcloud6]

I don't think the rule needs changing.  If the guns are set up well by the crews, they could be pushed back into the woods or among the buildings to cover their limber.  And yes, I know some guns are too big but many are not.  This simply could be a design-for-effect rule leading towards the more common, in the game, smaller guns.   Also "spotting" may not necessarily mean you see the actual gun, but you have observed the muzzle flash and dust, etc. and thus fire on the suspected position.

[plloyd1010]

Official ruling: When a spotted unit is loaded on a transport, the transport inherits the spotted status.