Scenario Setup: Board Entry

[cjsiam]

First---I tried to search in the Forum DB--but I couldn't get any hits...tried many combinations of "Setup" "Entry conditions" etc.....
Any hints or previous dialogs anyone recall?

Question is---IF the scenario startup conditions say that you enter on a board edge---CAN you choose to delay that entry?

I'm mixed about it---I've done it---but now I'm not sure....

I play with Peter's Rules and Double-blind, so already there are visibility constraints...

Thoughts?
thanks!

[Blackcloud6]

My opponent asked me about his today  and to me it is not clear.

Here are the rules governing this:
 16.5: Entering and Exiting the Board
 
Units may enter or exit the game board as directed by the scenario instructions.
 
16.51 Entering the Board
 Units that enter the board during the course of a scenario should be set up off the edge of the map in stacks under normal stacking limits. When the units are scheduled to enter, group them around leaders in an extended line of "hexes" as though they were on the board, and activate them normally. Move them onto the board normally, counting hexes and expending MPs normally (use the clear terrain cost unless the units enter play at a hex where a road or trail exits the board; in that case use the road or trail MP cost).
 
For example: if six trucks were to enter the board through the same road hex, the first stack of three could enter paying 1/2 MP, while the second stack would pay one MP (1/2 MP to enter plus the 1/2 MP moving up while off-map. Similarly, the first stack moving off road would pay two MPs to enter the first clear hex while the second stack would pay four MPs, and so on.
 
Units entering the map may move directly into an assault hex that borders the map edge.
 
 16.5 leads me to think this: if the scenario instruction say "Enter on Turn 1," then they enter on Turn 1 and cannot be delayed.  If the scenario says "Enter on Turn 1 or after..." then they can be delayed.  However, there is the "may."  Sigh.

[Grognard Gunny]

Usually the instructions tell you when they come on. If on turn 1..... by all means "come on" (otherwise the battle is delayed). One COULD not come on at all.... but the game would not be a "battle" at all.. in which case the opponent in question would be looking for a new player. Now, in the case of the later moves, I notice that the instructions generally say something to the effect that they can come in later than..... whatever. This I can see as legit.

GG

[Blackcloud6]

I asked a similar question on the PG thread on Consimworld.  Two PG designers, Jay Townsend and Phillipe Leonard expressed that you must set up the units offboard on the turn the scenario instructions say they enter but you do not have to activate them that turn if you don't want to and they can be activated on a later turn, or never if you choose to do so.  However, if the instructions say they must enter on a turn, they they must enter that turn.

So, with two of the prolific designers saying this, I think we can go with this interpretation of the rule.

[plloyd1010]

Usually the instructions tell you when they come on. If on turn 1..... by all means "come on" (otherwise the battle is delayed). One COULD not come on at all.... but the game would not be a "battle" at all.. 

The implication being the player with the entering units is not fulfilling victory conditions for another turn.

[cjsiam]

#1-- I feel that NOT entering units on the turn a bit "gamey"...meaning you could (taken to extrema..) wait a few turns, then see how things develop---and then
enter units on the board in just the right place....VERY GAMEY....and not realistic...

#2-- Being forced to SET THEM UP off board ON the Turn of Entry--but at a location--but be able to delay them---THAT I can live with
....At least you have made your forces allocation.

  ONLY issue is that if an opponent gets within spotting range--I'd think they should be informed....in fact it might require a board---"You mean I can't fire at those
loaded trucks lined up on the road within range?...why's that?"....

I Do feel #1 not really invalid...and hereby MIA Culpa to being guilty recently....but, I'm trying to do my penance by clarifying......

[Blackcloud6]

Coming back to this, and looking at what cjsiam wrote "#1-- I feel that NOT entering units on the turn a bit "gamey"...meaning you could (taken to extrema..) wait a few turns, then see how things develop---and then
enter units on the board in just the right place....VERY GAMEY....and not realistic..."

I think that holding off board and entering some is realistic in the sense that you can send some force forward to do recon, which is very realistic and doctrinal for most armies.  We were taught to always, if possible, conduct a leaders' recon at least.

[cjsiam]

I agree...but
Taking advantage of board edge entry....not entering on the road, but 10 hexes north in an open field which turns out to be unsupervised by any enemy units
as I discovered in the two turns I delayed entry.....

Setting up WHERE you are going to enter---and then delaying it---even along the a road, or an open area,
that seems reasonable....
A force is moving along a road, or moving across a front....that force is laid out off board, and then moves on board from the
positions they established, started....This works for me....
Deciding that those two companies would enter 10 hexes North, or come in on a different road--because of what was discovered in the first turns
movement.... Just feels gamey.....

So holding off board, but at the locations they were set up at BEFORE intelligence started to stream in from the forward recon...makes sense...
Maybe there is a # of hexes N/S or E/W that they could enter into based on the # of turns they delay....
Course that makes historical scenarios really hard....