Soviet formation philosophy.

[plloyd1010]

As those of you who read Andrew's Blog Post already know, I'm wading through the formation catalog for PG-HQ. For those of you who are likely to use that feature, I would like your opinions on what you would like to see. This mostly has to do with the USSR.

The Soviets seem to have several divisions, and probably smaller units, which had multiple incarnation. Sometimes the unit was destroyed/disbanded and another unit redesignated to take its place (the 110th Rifle of earlier consternation is an example). Others were promoted and the parent cloned; such as the 1st Rifle, 1st Guards Rifle, 1st Rifle, 1st Guards Rifle, 1st Rifle, & 1st Rifle Division.(That's right, promoted twice & recreated at least 3 times).

The question is, do you think a lineage approach is better? Or an incident approach? The lineage idea makes one formation with carries through the system, I would have notes explaining gaps & overlaps. The incident idea creates more formations, mostly avoids the need for long notes, but results in shorter scenario lists. i. e. 1st Rifle/1st Guards Rifle (1), 1st Rifle/1st Guards Rifle (2), 1st Rifle (3), 1st Rifle (4).

Which would you like better?

[campsawyer]

Linage would be nice, but a bear to maintain with new games/supplements. For what I would like formations for is to put together all scenarios for a given formation and sort by date.

[tanzerleader]

i think lineage is best.

[vince hughes]

Peter,

For me, lineage is the way, and purely on a historical note it would assist and perhaps stir interest in players not so immersed in the Total War of the East Front...... Look forward to your efforts on this.

[tanzerleader]

if you need any assistance with Australia or New Zealand please let me know.

[plloyd1010]

I want make sure you guys understand, that going with lineage, especially with the Russians, create some strange overlaps. In my example, after 1st Rifle (1) is promoted to 1st Guards Rifle, 1st Rifle (2) is created. I'm not sure if 1st Guards (2) exists at the same time as 1st Guards (1), but it does exist with 1st Rifle (3) & 1st Rifle (4). That is the worst example I have found so far.

To further complicate it, 1st Guards Rifle (1) became the nucleus of the 1st Guards Mech Corp. 1st Guards Rifle (2) was the reincarnation of the 1st Guards Motor Rifle. See where all this came from? A couple other countries did things like this, but not in such a tangle.

I wont mess with the Russians until the poll is done. There is lots more to do. Brits with the ever shifting, multi-national brigades in North Africa and the Italian's individually numbered battalions and regiments. Sheesh!

[zovs]

In order to vote, how do I get to this formation feature so I can see what it does?

Forgive my newbieness

[rerathbun]

I like the lineage idea. Perhaps the best way to represent it would be to put a 'flowchart' on the formation's page (assuming each formation gets its own page), although it would be a lot of work.

I've attached a rough example. A formation that was renamed or promoted would continue in the same line, with arrows to show how long it lasted. New formations on new lines, with dates to mark when they were established and/or disbanded.

[vince hughes]

Peter,

The Germans too have some conversions, such as the 12th Wild Buffoloes Div then turns into the 12th Volksgrenadier Div soon after or just at the end of the the battles for the Westwall around Aachen. The Volksgrenadiers Divs seem to come from previously knackered divisions, though I'd be ahead of myself and guessing if I said they all did.

Similarly, the rise of the SS Panzer Divisions from previosly infantry units as in the 1st Leibstandarte, and things such as 2nd Das Reich and 3rd Totenkopf grew out of the SSVT units. Have you had to do overlap lineage for these ?

I imagine your knowledge base is growing some through this 'study' ?

[plloyd1010]

Yes Vince, it certainly is. There is always something coming up as I go through the lists.

The Germans did similar things, but they didn't have the overlaps I found with the Soviets. Such as when the 33rd Infantry converts to the 15th Panzer, another 33rd Infantry wasn't created. That made German lineages much easier.

In the end, I'll probably have to do a combination of the lineage & instance ideas. I'll just try to lean it the result more like the poll turns out. Lineage was winning as of last night.