No more Winter Wonderland maps?

[Tony M]

Does anyone know if the Winter Wonderland maps for Elsenborn Ridge are out of print? When you click on the link on the Avalanche website to order them, it takes you to a page that lets you do a general product search. When you look at a list of products, the Winter Wonderland maps are not there.

I was thinking about buying them and using them to create some scenarios based on the book "The Defense of Moscow 1941," by Jack Radey and Charles Sharp. I have the original PG game plus Eastern Front, and don't really like the maps for either of those games. Still, I would like to get some use out of the counters.

[goosebrown]

Does anyone know if the Winter Wonderland maps for Elsenborn Ridge are out of print? When you click on the link on the Avalanche website to order them, it takes you to a page that lets you do a general product search. When you look at a list of products, the Winter Wonderland maps are not there.

I was thinking about buying them and using them to create some scenarios based on the book "The Defense of Moscow 1941," by Jack Radey and Charles Sharp. I have the original PG game plus Eastern Front, and don't really like the maps for either of those games. Still, I would like to get some use out of the counters.

The maps for Eastern Front are unplayable. Sorry to whomever did them, but they need a redo.

[Juiceman]

Check out Fire in the Steppe for new maps 1-8.

[Tony M]

Check out Fire in the Steppe for new maps 1-8.

Someday, probably far in the future, I will buy that game. But it's $99, and I've already spend a lot on the original PG and Eastern Front, which cover some of the same area. It doesn't make sense to plunk down $99 on another eastern front PG game. Anyway, right now I would prefer the Pacific. But even with those games I don't know. I'm retired, and at that age where other things like medical expenses tend to take over. The Gold Club is a good deal, but there's no way at this point in my life that I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars a year on games.

[plloyd1010]

The maps for Eastern Front are unplayable. Sorry to whomever did them, but they need a redo.

They are quite playable, and they got a redo. They are the same maps as Fire in the Steppe. There were not many ambiguities, that "honor" went to Battle of the Bulge.

[Tony M]

Does anyone know if the Winter Wonderland maps for Elsenborn Ridge are out of print? When you click on the link on the Avalanche website to order them, it takes you to a page that lets you do a general product search. When you look at a list of products, the Winter Wonderland maps are not there.

I was thinking about buying them and using them to create some scenarios based on the book "The Defense of Moscow 1941," by Jack Radey and Charles Sharp. I have the original PG game plus Eastern Front, and don't really like the maps for either of those games. Still, I would like to get some use out of the counters.

The maps for Eastern Front are unplayable. Sorry to whomever did them, but they need a redo.

Yeah, I hate to criticize someone's hard work, but the maps for the original PG caused me to stay away from the series for years. Then when I bought Eastern Front, I was further disappointed. But somebody must like those maps, so a tip of the hat to them. For me, though, it's hard to go back after playing Elsenborn Ridge/Black Panthers. 

I recently tried to cherry pick some 1-map scenarios in the original PG, and realized that I still don't like the maps. Plus, the scenario I tried to play had too many counters. For the Soviets the OOB included 23 infantry platoons. That's too many to be fun for me. 

PG is a good system, but long scenarios tend to become very cluttered and slow-moving. There is a *lot* of dice rolling. It seems that way to me, at least. I envy guys who have the table space and the time--and the mental energy--to play large scenarios. So I have been experimenting with the Elsenborn Ridge maps, creating small, short scenarios that can be played to some kind of conclusion in an evening.

[Juiceman]

Check out Fire in the Steppe for new maps 1-8.

Someday, probably far in the future, I will buy that game. But it's $99, and I've already spend a lot on the original PG and Eastern Front, which cover some of the same area. It doesn't make sense to plunk down $99 on another eastern front PG game. Anyway, right now I would prefer the Pacific. But even with those games I don't know. I'm retired, and at that age where other things like medical expenses tend to take over. The Gold Club is a good deal, but there's no way at this point in my life that I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars a year on games.

I hear you on the cost, this hobby is not cheap!

[JayTownsend]

I still see the winter maps are offer on APs website:

Avalanche Press

[Michael Murphy]

I still see the winter maps are offer on APs website:

Avalanche Press

Jay, I just followed the link all the way back to the web store and unfortunately, the option to make a purchase is unavailable.

Peace Michael