Convoluted Games

[Grognard Gunny]

Where the original PG game system is not so bad as far as a learning curve goes.... I think the "makers/designers" of, say, Saipan just might have steepened that curve. If, for instance, a "gamer" got into the Saipan game AND "took on" the first couple of scenarios... I would have thought that "gamer" would find himself/herself a bit lost in the intricacies of those scenarios, especially if that "gamer" was new to the hobby. I think that would not serve the gamer world very well in the long run. Just sayin'.

GG

[plloyd1010]

The question of the best starter games has come up fairly often. APL's intentions for those games are often a step above what most consider introductory. You seem to be beyond that point anyway. Then you went to a Pacific game. Saipan is a well designed and produced game (except for some LTV's), but moving to Pacific introduces a special weirdness. Looking at your collection, I suggest you stay with An Army at Dawn if you are having trouble with the game system. The later scenarios in that game are the best.

[Grognard Gunny]

I didn't say I was having trouble with the game system..... I said if a Newbie to the gaming world  came into it, etc. My point being that we need people in the hobby to keep the manufacturers in business... if for no other reason than to keep us hobbiers buying.... Yes?

GG

[Grognard Gunny]

Oh yeah, I DID catch the fact that the LCVPs and the LTVs are on opposite sides of the counter mix, making it a LITTLE difficult to come up with the two LCVPs in the first scenario (...and 2 for that matter.) I remedied it by doubling up the jeep and the 37mm AT (as it should be anyway) and dropping one of the INF Plts.

GG

[plloyd1010]

Oh yeah, I DID catch the fact that the LCVPs and the LTVs are on opposite sides of the counter mix, making it a LITTLE difficult to come up with the two LCVPs in the first scenario (...and 2 for that matter.) I remedied it by doubling up the jeep and the 37mm AT (as it should be anyway) and dropping one of the INF Plts.

GG

I was thinking more of the army vs. marine LTV4's. The army's version is a 1/2 strength version of the marine's.

[Shad]

If you really want to feel a bit lost, mate, play Guadalcanal. That's all the Americans are the entire time - lost in the jungle!

[triangular_cube]

If you really want to feel a bit lost, mate, play Guadalcanal. That's all the Americans are the entire time - lost in the jungle!

Despite the reputation, only 5 scenarios call for the disorientation rule in Guadalcanal, and of those, only twice does it apply to the Americans (it applies to the Japanese all 5 times). The most interesting bit about those Guadalcanal jungle rules was that you couldn't examine enemy stacks in the Jungle unless you could spot it, so combined with the massive amounts of leaders in the module some scenarios were a literal shell game of the USMC hiding their MGs behind the wall of LTs until the Japanese walked adjacent for OP fire.

Then if the Japanese could assault you in good order you probably lost...

[Shad]

If you really want to feel a bit lost, mate, play Guadalcanal. That's all the Americans are the entire time - lost in the jungle!

Despite the reputation, only 5 scenarios call for the disorientation rule in Guadalcanal, and of those, only twice does it apply to the Americans (it applies to the Japanese all 5 times). The most interesting bit about those Guadalcanal jungle rules was that you couldn't examine enemy stacks in the Jungle unless you could spot it, so combined with the massive amounts of leaders in the module some scenarios were a literal shell game of the USMC hiding their MGs behind the wall of LTs until the Japanese walked adjacent for OP fire.

Then if the Japanese could assault you in good order you probably lost...

You're right about everything, but now try and visualize playing that game over Vassal. Everything would be hidden until you stepped on someone's toe.   Completely different experience.

[Schoenwulf]

I'll have to try one on Vassal one of the days. Playing through Guadalcanal up close and in person was fun; there are some great scenarios in there.

[JayTownsend]

Where the original PG game system is not so bad as far as a learning curve goes.... I think the "makers/designers" of, say, Saipan just might have steepened that curve. If, for instance, a "gamer" got into the Saipan game AND "took on" the first couple of scenarios... I would have thought that "gamer" would find himself/herself a bit lost in the intricacies of those scenarios, especially if that "gamer" was new to the hobby. I think that would not serve the gamer world very well in the long run. Just sayin'.

GG

Or Gunny, the gamer can ask questions here or over on CSW. Maybe BGG, but I don't visit there as much. Saipan adds Amphibious landings and caves plus a lot of new vehicle/AFV types. Really not that many more rules if you are into the series. the Pacific is a good change up from Western/Eastern/Desert fighting. The maps are gorgeous!