BM-13, I'll probably do it anyway, but...

[plloyd1010]

Is it worth it?
The BM-13 originally appeared in Heroes of the Soviet Union, that countersheet was later used in Red Warriors. In that countersheet, the BM-13 has a range of 21.

By late 2005, APL was rethinking a few of its counters and making changes. The revised BM-13 appeared in Road to Berlin in 2006. Here and after, the BM-13 has a range of 18.

A certain persnickety PG-HQ Vassal player has pointed out that the BM-13 piece in Vassal is the range 18 version. He would like a piece with a range of 21. Well, dat aint gonna happen. What is likely to happen is that I will make an alternate version within the piece. Those of you who read my extension notes and/or have successfully dealt with cavalry machine-guns know what I mean. The real question is, does anyone, apart from the afore referenced member, actually care?

[triangular_cube]

You can name names 

My point of contention with the RKKA BM-13 is that 38/53 scenarios in which it appears either A) Came with the range 21 piece directly in the module, or B) Only had the range 21 piece in existence at the time. 

If the majority of its usage is a range 21 piece it makes sense to me to have an alternate image available so that when playing "authentically" we don't have to remember the difference. I would say for "balance" sake, but... after making it 65% of the way through Tank Battles I can assure you these MARS scenarios were never tabled prior to publishing, let alone playested. 

We had a similar issue with the Italian HMG unit that occaisionally has 7-4 strength but predominantly has a 6-4 strength. After bugging you about it you gave me the 6-4 image   .

Its not like im asking for the true anachronisms, like the 0-0 RKKA 45mm (which i do play with in the older stuff, but would feel silly asking for).

[plloyd1010]

You can name names 

Okay Mr. P,
First there 127 scenarios where BM-13's appear. Of those 29 are prior to the release of Road to Berlin. Then there are the 9 from Red Warriors, which reuses the HotSU countersheet, so I need to squint a bit there to find that acceptable. (Sort of like when APL reprinted mistakes from EFDx in FitS and ARom.) That leaves a comparison of 29 to 98 of the old vs. new appearances, 38 to 89 with the RedW squint.
 

We had a similar issue with the Italian HMG unit that occaisionally has 7-4 strength but predominantly has a 6-4 strength. After bugging you about it you gave me the 6-4 image   .

And as I said. I will likely do the same thing here. Are you going to try to get alternates for the PzIVe now? Aint gonna happen. The P51/F51 question has an 8 point margin in favor of the F51. It might just pass.

[triangular_cube]

You can name names 

Okay Mr. P,
First there 127 scenarios where BM-13's appear. Of those 29 are prior to the release of Road to Berlin. Then there are the 9 from Red Warriors, which reuses the HotSU countersheet, so I need to squint a bit there to find that acceptable. (Sort of like when APL reprinted mistakes from EFDx in FitS and ARom.) That leaves a comparison of 29 to 98 of the old vs. new appearances, 38 to 89 with the RedW squint.
 

We had a similar issue with the Italian HMG unit that occaisionally has 7-4 strength but predominantly has a 6-4 strength. After bugging you about it you gave me the 6-4 image   .

And as I said. I will likely do the same thing here. Are you going to try to get alternates for the PzIVe now? Aint gonna happen. The P51/F51 question has an 8 point margin in favor of the F51. It might just pass.

If you mix in the Guards BM-13 sure? This is about the RKKA BM-13. These are game pieces, not real trucks. 

I haven't asked for an alternate IVe, although I do use the old values in the appropriate modules. I spoke in favor of your proposed P51/F51 change, so I really don't know what your throwing that in for.

[plloyd1010]

No simulation or recreation of reality. No systemic constancy. Got it.

I refer you to my signature...

[triangular_cube]

No simulation or recreation of reality. No systemic constancy. Got it.

Systemic constancy and recreation of reality would be recreating what came in the game that is being reproduced electronically. Making arbitrary retroactive substitutions is the antithesis of this. 

Divergent goals aside, creating alternate images makes everyone happy. I'm not suggesting that one HAS to play with values from decades ago in a 20 year old game.

Editing in:

We always butt heads on this as we have fundamentally opposed views on what the Site and the Modules should be representing. I hope you don't take it personally, because I really do appreciate all the hard work and effort that you have put into all of this. If its a huge undertaking to add an alternate image don't worry about. Heck, by the time its done, I'll most likely be done with Tank Battles and might be the only one who cares enough to use the darn thing anyway.

[plloyd1010]

We always butt heads on this as we have fundamentally opposed views on what the Site and the Modules should be representing. I hope you don't take it personally, because I really do appreciate all the hard work and effort that you have put into all of this. If its a huge undertaking to add an alternate image don't worry about. Heck, by the time its done, I'll most likely be done with Tank Battles and might be the only one who cares enough to use the darn thing anyway.

Of course we do, and with some others as well. That's kind of where the fun is. I expect our differences have more to do with how we view the games as opposed to the site.

PG is a very solid though imprecise game system and the scenarios are quite robust in their balance (for good or ill). Most retroactively applied developments have little significance due to the inherent granularity of the system and that robustness. There are exceptions of course, the Italian machine-guns for example.

I think the site was made for arguments like this. Judging from the lack of other responses and side input, I surmise that no one else cares about this argument, or my initial question about the BM-13 status.

[goosebrown]

Can you guys do this with a flintlock at 25 paces?

[treadasaurusrex]

Arisaka bayonets at 5 paces would be way more fun!