3.13 Reexamined

[saracv3]

Aside from glu10's question about Assault and 3.13, I happened to run into the following situation tonight:
A Colonel (10-2-1) activates two mortars and scores a very nice DM result on two enemy pieces (one leader and one inf. unit, same hex). He then decides to activate a MG unit in his stack and a 75rcl weapon underneath a Captain in a an adjacent hex.

Due to that result, he then decides on the following:

He didn't use his combat modifier w/ the mortars (no advantage).  Can he use his modifier for for the  weapon? A Captain (9-1-0) also is located in the same hex as the Colonel, while a another Captain (8-0-0) is located w/ the weapon. Can the 9-1-0 Captain apply his modifier to the MG while 10-2-1 Colonel applies his modifier to the weapon? This would equate to +3 for the attack in combat modifiers and 13 for the MG and weapon. The 8-0-0 Captain becomes a non-factor.

But I think the problem lies in the sudden decision &  advantage of this 2nd attack, which may violate  rule 3.13.

[g1ul10]

A Colonel (10-2-1) activates two mortars and scores a very nice DM result on two enemy pieces (one leader and one inf. unit, same hex). He then decides to activate a MG unit in his stack and a 75rcl weapon underneath a Captain in a an adjacent hex.

My understanding is that you have already used the Colonel in the first activation (the one with the mortars) so you cannot use it a second time to activate other units. After the first activation, the leader is marked Fire/Moved.

[plloyd1010]

Craig, the problem with your narration is that the HMG declaration comes after the mortar attack. You are supposed to declare activations before execution. The colonel can activate both the mortars and HMG, no problem there. The activation is Fire orders for all 3, if he wants, he can activate the captains too.

No one may add their modifiers to the mortars. Combat modifiers may only be added to direct fire values of unit in the leader's hex. One leader may add their value to one unit. For bombardment, the combat modifier may still be used to combine fire from adjacent hexes, but does not add to the firepower of any of the units.

The summary is that the mortars and HMG are activated to fire. Attacks are resolved in any order desired, mortars first in this case. HMG would then fire, or it's activation is wasted. No modifiers for the HMG as the 8-0-0 captain is the leader stacked with it.

Short answer, you cannot do things the way you described.

[Hugmenot]

Craig,

Can you post a picture?  I think this would make a good example to illustrate the rules if someone decides to describe the activation options.

[saracv3]

I think I will have to do a drawing. I'm not proficient enough w/ VASSAL (Maybe there is a way there) to use that. There are four counters in some stacks. I always put the leader(s) on top. Sometimes I've got an information counter nightmare, especially w/ various units in one stack who want to activate at different times.

[plloyd1010]

   
Here is what I understand:
In 1 activation, the your colonel (represented by by the LTC) activated the mortars to fire on the target, (represented by the Russian INF and CAPT).
That is in box #1.

Then, because the first result was so good, you wanted to fire the HMG and RCL, with the CAPT, stacked with the LTC. Also adding the LTC modifier.
That is box #2. That is illegal because the activation by the LTC has been declared and executed. The CAPT, with the HMG could activate in a subsequent activation, activating the both the HMG and RCL, combine their fire (because he can add 1 hex of units to his fire group), and add this modifier to the HMG. He or the LTC could not do it in the same activation.

What you can do is have the LTC activate the mortars, HMG and RCL at the same time.
That is box #3. The LTC has the mortars fire first. Then he can make the fire group with the HMG and RCL, because he has a modifier and activated them to fire. All 4 units would need to be part of the LTC's activation.
The LTC activates the CAPT in his hex, who then activates the HMG and RCL and he would make the fire group.

[cjsiam]

Peter---in your #3...
It would appear the LTC can activate, create fire group and add his combat factors....
I don't see the need to activate the captain, right?

The HMG and RCL are 9+8+2LTC factors = 19 (yea...so ....just to confirm he could do it...)

the mortars fire at 16+1 column shift for visable....

I think that aligns....your comment about the captain in hex with LTC forming the fire group confused me (I'm simple...)

[plloyd1010]

Peter---in your #3...
It would appear the LTC can activate, create fire group and add his combat factors....
I don't see the need to activate the captain, right?

That's right. That is why I said it would be an alternate way to for the fire group.

I actually don't see a reason to have the CAPT and LTC in the same hex. You can only use one combat modifier, and neither one helps the fire strength. It looks like that group is over resourced.

[saracv3]

I can't reproduce the VASSAL illustration in my response; what I can do is easily correct the positions of the units and leaders in the situation locatiusing #1 (Too bad I can't drag and drop.)

Hex #0314 =  8-0-0 Captain , 8-12 75rcl weapon
Hex #0315 = 10--2-1 Colonel (Col. Sturm, commander), 9-1-1 Captain, 8-6 short mortar, 5-5 MG (para)
Hex #0415 = 9-1-0 Lieu. , 8-6 short mortar , 5-5 MG (para)

All units and leaders are good order.

Activation #1 = Colonel actuvates both mortars for a 16 bomb. against stack w/ 1 Australian leader, 2  Aussie 4-3 inf. , all good order. Range is 4 and 5 respectivelly. Both mortars can see target in light woods.
+1 column shift for clear LOS, both mortars.
RESULT = M2 ; Leader DM , 1 Inf. DM , 2nd Inf. no result.

Activation #2 = Colonel sees Great Opportunity given this result: He uses 75rcl  & the MG stacked w/ him and 9-1-1 Captain. 8-0-0 Captain simply remains idle. The Colonel +2, Captain +1, 75  +8 , MG +5 = 16 direct fire
Column shift = -2 for light woods and range
RESULT = No Result (So much for Great Opportunity)

The MG in Hex #0415 was not activated in the same atttack. (This resulted in an informational Moved/Fired nightmare. The mortar in the same hex activated, but the MG did not.) Since this scenario has only 61 counters, I was able to remember this.

Peter's note about no added combat modifiers to bombardment attacks was revelatory!

[saracv3]

Don't I wish I 9-5 HMGs in Crete.