3ed and 4ed compatibility

[Duncan]

I have five 3ed modules, all unplayed. I would like to pick up others and begin playing them. Am I able to play the 4ed modules with my 3ed rules, or visa versa? If I pick up Elsenborn Ridge does it have 4ed rules that will also work with all my 3ed gear? What does this do to balance and playability?

[pixelgeek]

I have five 3ed modules, all unplayed. I would like to pick up others and begin playing them. Am I able to play the 4ed modules with my 3ed rules, or visa versa? If I pick up Elsenborn Ridge does it have 4ed rules that will also work with all my 3ed gear? What does this do to balance and playability?

I haven't encountered any issues playing scenarios from Eastern Front and my older copy of France 1940 using the new rules

[plloyd1010]

3rd and 4th edition rules can be used across the series. There are differences. I can think of 3 that you should keep in mind.

1. Mechanized vehicles are generally a little faster in the 4th edition, but slower on roads than in the 3rd edition. This can make long marches slower, but combat maneuvering more flexible.
   
2. Hills were limiting terrain in the 3rd edition, but not in the 4th. Scenarios which used hills to cover an approach will be quite unbalanced now.
   
3. Assaults are a fire action in the 4th edition, the 3rd edition had them as a move action. This change means that infantry cannot ride APCs into an assault and participate in the first round. This adds a turn to assault deployments.
   

Most of the other changes do not make as much a difference as those listed. Generally I suggest using the 4th edition rules over the 3rd.

[joe_oppenheimer]

In general you should be able to play any older modules with the 4th edition rules. I was pretty wedded to 3rd ed, but eventually transitioned and have been happy with the changes.

Hills were limiting terrain in the 3rd edition, but not in the 4th. Scenarios which used hills to cover an approach will be quite unbalanced now.

I find this can be an issue in the older North Africa games (Afrika Korps and Desert Rats) since many scenarios have the defender on a hill that was considered limiting terrain when they were designed. For some of these I've added a house rule to treat the hill as having rocky terrain on it.

[Duncan]

In general you should be able to play any older modules with the 4th edition rules. I was pretty wedded to 3rd ed, but eventually transitioned and have been happy with the changes.

Hills were limiting terrain in the 3rd edition, but not in the 4th. Scenarios which used hills to cover an approach will be quite unbalanced now.

I find this can be an issue in the older North Africa games (Afrika Korps and Desert Rats) since many scenarios have the defender on a hill that was considered limiting terrain when they were designed. For some of these I've added a house rule to treat the hill as having rocky terrain on it.

Thanks. I have Desert Rats, but not Afrika Korps. I'll keep it in mind.

[Duncan]

Well, I ordered four of the 4ed boxes anyhow. Had a couple GCACW boxes to get anyhow. Saves on shipping you know. 

[Bangla]

In general you should be able to play any older modules with the 4th edition rules. I was pretty wedded to 3rd ed, but eventually transitioned and have been happy with the changes.

Hills were limiting terrain in the 3rd edition, but not in the 4th. Scenarios which used hills to cover an approach will be quite unbalanced now.

I find this can be an issue in the older North Africa games (Afrika Korps and Desert Rats) since many scenarios have the defender on a hill that was considered limiting terrain when they were designed. For some of these I've added a house rule to treat the hill as having rocky terrain on it.

Yes.  We're just finishing "The Tide Turns" in Desert Rats.  The British Infantry become meaningless since they're bombarded throughout the game and just melt away.

[waynebaumber]

In general you should be able to play any older modules with the 4th edition rules. I was pretty wedded to 3rd ed, but eventually transitioned and have been happy with the changes.

Hills were limiting terrain in the 3rd edition, but not in the 4th. Scenarios which used hills to cover an approach will be quite unbalanced now.

I find this can be an issue in the older North Africa games (Afrika Korps and Desert Rats) since many scenarios have the defender on a hill that was considered limiting terrain when they were designed. For some of these I've added a house rule to treat the hill as having rocky terrain on it.

Yes.  We're just finishing "The Tide Turns" in Desert Rats.  The British Infantry become meaningless since they're bombarded throughout the game and just melt away.

Bangla, Tony L told me about this, could the INF not have hidden  behind the hills, remember LOS rules for hills mean they do block LOS in certain circumstances. I must admit I always worried about hills being limiting terrain in the 3rd Ed rules. I have not yet played a scenario in 4th edition where I could see the difference but I can see in the desert scenarios where there is no other cover it could make it very trick for the PBI.

[Bangla]

In general you should be able to play any older modules with the 4th edition rules. I was pretty wedded to 3rd ed, but eventually transitioned and have been happy with the changes.

Hills were limiting terrain in the 3rd edition, but not in the 4th. Scenarios which used hills to cover an approach will be quite unbalanced now.

I find this can be an issue in the older North Africa games (Afrika Korps and Desert Rats) since many scenarios have the defender on a hill that was considered limiting terrain when they were designed. For some of these I've added a house rule to treat the hill as having rocky terrain on it.

Yes.  We're just finishing "The Tide Turns" in Desert Rats.  The British Infantry become meaningless since they're bombarded throughout the game and just melt away.

Bangla, Tony L told me about this, could the INF not have hidden  behind the hills, remember LOS rules for hills mean they do block LOS in certain circumstances. I must admit I always worried about hills being limiting terrain in the 3rd Ed rules. I have not yet played a scenario in 4th edition where I could see the difference but I can see in the desert scenarios where there is no other cover it could make it very trick for the PBI.

They could indeed hide behind the hills.  But that would render them useless in the scenario, except perhaps to sneak out and grab a road hex late in the game.
The important thing here though is that the rule change changes the complexion of the scenario ... and many more of them ... so that they become a bit of a waste of time.  That's a pity, and I would have preferred the game/module designers had looked at their scenarios and recommended changes to cope.  For this scenario, and perhaps other desert scenarios too, I would recommend considering hills as limiting terrain also.

[rerathbun]

Perhaps we should add a general note to the early desert games:
 

When playing with the 4th Edition Rules, treat all hill hexes as Rocky terrain for spotting, but as Clear terrain for combat.

Makes the hills limiting terrain for personnel only.