Questions on 14.1, 14.5 and Wire

[fanghawk]

Getting back into PG has been great and I'm slowly wrapping my head around some of the nuances.  That said, I've come across three instances where I need a little clarification.  I tried searching through the forums but couldn't find these answers specifically.  I apologize if I missed them.

First, in 14.1, it says if a 12 is rolled, the unit or leader is automatically demoralized.  For the 12, is that modified, or unmodified, i.e., does it mean "boxcars" or does it mean a modified roll of 12?  Since rolling for morale on an M2 result means a 10 on the subsequent dice roll would be a 12...does that mean a 10 morale unit is automatically demoralized despite only failing by 2?

Second, in 14.5 it says that for morale checks and recovery rolls, no unit or leader may use an "adjusted morale value greater than 10 due to any combination of bonuses or circumstances."  Since it says "adjusted" does that mean leaders with a printed morale of 11 still get to use the 11?

Finally, since I've pulled out some "Invasion of Germany" scenarios, I was curious how 4th edition handles wire.  Short answer it doesn't really.  So I went back to Desert Rats, the last place I really saw it mentioned, and got the rules there.  One small glitch, though.  In Desert Rats, it says a foot unit must spend an entire turn in the hex to remove it.  It also says a tank can spend 3 MP in the hex to crush it and remove it.  All well and good except the 4th ed. TEC says, "may be removed by ENG".  So does that mean it has to be an ENG instead of any foot unit (and a tank still works) or is that meant to say that ONLY and ENG unit can remove it?

Thanks guys!

[Schoenwulf]

I think "yes" to the first two, and that's it's just engineers or sappers that remove wire with 4th Edition.

[fanghawk]

Thanks. If I understand your response, your “Yes” to the first question means any modified roll of 12 (or higher? Implied but not stated in the rules) is an automatic demoralization? So taking 14.1 and your response to 14.5 together, an 11 Morale leader will never be disrupted, only demoralized?

[Michael Murphy]

FWIW, I have played that only a roll of boxcars automatically Demoralizes the target.

​​​A 11 morale leader can flunk an M1 or an M2 and become Disrupted if he rolls high enough, (e.g. a roll of 11 on an M1 or a roll of 10 or 11 on an M2).

Road to Dunkirk, a very recent game, still lists ENG as the only units capable of removing wire.

Peace. Michael

[plloyd1010]

FWIW, I have played that only a roll of boxcars automatically Demoralizes the target.

That is how I always played it. Otherwise apply the result on the 1-2 and 3+ scheme.

[Schoenwulf]

FWIW, I have played that only a roll of boxcars automatically Demoralizes the target.

​​​A 11 morale leader can flunk an M1 or an M2 and become Disrupted if he rolls high enough, (e.g. a roll of 11 on an M1 or a roll of 10 or 11 on an M2).

Road to Dunkirk, a very recent game, still lists ENG as the only units capable of removing wire.

That's the way I've played it as well.

[Philippe]

FWIW, I have played that only a roll of boxcars automatically Demoralizes the target.

​​​A 11 morale leader can flunk an M1 or an M2 and become Disrupted if he rolls high enough, (e.g. a roll of 11 on an M1 or a roll of 10 or 11 on an M2).

Road to Dunkirk, a very recent game, still lists ENG as the only units capable of removing wire.

Peace. Michael

According to  14.5 Maximum Morale, a 11 moral leader become disrupted on a roll of 11 for a M moral check too.

[Michael Murphy]

FWIW, I have played that only a roll of boxcars automatically Demoralizes the target.

​​​A 11 morale leader can flunk an M1 or an M2 and become Disrupted if he rolls high enough, (e.g. a roll of 11 on an M1 or a roll of 10 or 11 on an M2).

Road to Dunkirk, a very recent game, still lists ENG as the only units capable of removing wire.

Peace. Michael

According to  14.5 Maximum Morale, a 11 moral leader become disrupted on a roll of 11 for a M moral check too.

The original question was what morale level would an 11 leader use when taking a morale check. Would he use his own morale of 11, or would he be capped at a morale  level of 10? The consensus here seems to favor using 11 as 14.5 states that no unit or leader may use an "adjusted" morale value greater than 10. An 11 morale in this instance is a natural, not an adjusted value.

Peace. Michael

[Philippe]

Interesting I've never read this rule like you did.

My interpretation is : a 11 morale leader in a situation where no modifier applies, have an ajusted morale of 11 (natural 11 + 0 modifier) and you always roll vs your ajusted morale.

I don't which nterpretation is correct.