Moving into an assault hex

[plloyd1010]

2x disrupted T-34's in assault hex, 2 more (good order) outside. 1 T-34 moves to join the 2 disrupted ones. When the good order T-34 moves in, and attack, may the 2 disrupted T-34's join the assault? Rules in question 12.3 and 12.51.

[leonard]

2x disrupted T-34's in assault hex, 2 more (good order) outside. 1 T-34 moves to join the 2 disrupted ones. When the good order T-34 moves in, and attack, may the 2 disrupted T-34's join the assault? Rules in question 12.3 and 12.51.

Under Fire in the steppe tank leader rule ? Nice puzzle.
I was first wondering if 12.51 holds for tank leaders or not.
Even if OK, wouldn’t it require the use of two tank leaders during the same activation : one inside the assault and one outside ? Strange enough. More questions than answers....

[Schoenwulf]

I'd go with 12.3 in this case, since it would seem strange for unactivated units not to join in when the fresh T-34's enter the hex. With an estimated hex size of 200 meters, it would be hard for the "sitting" units to miss their compatriots joining them in the fight. Load up and fire those 76's comrades! However, depending on the actual assault situation, if time was on the Soviet side, I'd hold off, try to recover the disrupted units this turn and move in the adjacent unit next turn if the odds looked better.

[rerathbun]

The way I interpret the Fourth Edition rules, a disrupted tank leader in the assault hex can't 'call' the tanks outside the hex to join him per rule 3.12, but if a tank leader with the two tanks outside the hex orders one of them in (whether or not his tank enters), the tanks already in the hex can join the fight per 12.3.

Does Fire in the Steppe have a rule that affects this?

[rerathbun]

However, depending on the actual assault situation, if time was on the Soviet side, I'd hold off, try to recover the disrupted units this turn and move in the adjacent unit next turn if the odds looked better.

Or at least move one disrupted tank out, and then move both good-order tanks in to assault on the following activation.

[plloyd1010]

To clarify, and show off graphical skills again, while I wait. The situation looks like this:

   

Using a tank  leader activation, one of the tanks in 0504 moves into the assault hex. So when it moves and assaults, can the 2 disrupted tanks join the assault?

BtW: We already played it out as though they could. Result was one disrupted tank became demoralized and the new tank became disrupted. German infantry is holding up well.

[Hugmenot]

Peter,

Yes, the two disrupted tanks already present in the hex may also participate in the attack. The tank (while it is assigned a tank leader) is a still unit and this 12.3 applies.

12.3 Voluntary Combat
If an activated unit enters a hex which was already occupied by friendly and enemy units at the start of the moving unit's action segment, or if the turn begins with both sides' units in an assault hex, then the active player may choose whether or not to attack with those units this turn. If he attacks, any units that moved into the hex this turn, plus any undemoralized friendly units and leaders that began the turn in the assault hex and have not activated this turn, may attack if desired. Not all units must attack. However, all enemy units in the hex defend as one combined strength.

12.51 Leaders
Only leaders in an assault hex may influence units there. Leaders in adjacent hexes may not. Leaders in the assault hex may direct units in adjacent hexes to enter the assault hex, but may not influence them in any other way if they don't enter the assault hex.

[cjsiam]

To clarify, and show off graphical skills again, while I wait. The situation looks like this:



Using a tank  leader activation, one of the tanks in 0504 moves into the assault hex. So when it moves and assaults, can the 2 disrupted tanks join the assault?

BtW: We already played it out as though they could. Result was one disrupted tank became demoralized and the new tank became disrupted. German infantry is holding up well.

Wouldn't it be nice if the maps were that big and we could lay the units out like this....??

(damn german infantry....)

[plloyd1010]

Craig, I just realized something... This is a double-blind game. I kept wondering why all my units were hidden.

We need to do an visibility check next session.

[leonard]

If Fire in the steppe special rule nr 13 is applied, it seems a bit too easy for the two disrupted T34 just to join the attack without need of another tank leader to « pay » for it. It think it would be ok only if the Soviet player still had another unused tank leader possibility available at that moment. Even if that additional tank leader activation would not be counted.