4th Ed Overrun attacks

[richvalle]

I want to make sure I'm doing this attack right. I moved 2 tank units 2 spaces and then moved into a hex with a lone Inf unit. I can do all the LOS restrictions. 

My opponent (who didn't realize I was doing an Overrun attack at first) questioned both units moving together. After looking at the rules I think this is considered Assault Movement and they can move together. After they exit the hex they probably need to move one at a time unless they assault again.

Right?

rv

[zaarin7]

IMHO Assault Movement is only done to get into the enemy hex. You have to use regular, one unit at at time with at most a leader and or passenger, movement to get into that hex adjacent to the enemy held occupied hex.

The optional rule on Extended Assault, which what you are discribing, speak in terms of moving a single unit. In the Overrun rule I do see where they wrote "...AFV (S) or cavalry..." so I see where the question is coming from. However a read of the entire section still IMHO looks like you move into the adjacent hex one at at time.

[richvalle]

IMHO Assault Movement is only done to get into the enemy hex. You have to use regular, one unit at at time with at most a leader and or passenger, movement to get into that hex adjacent to the enemy held occupied hex.

The optional rule on Extended Assault, which what you are discribing, speak in terms of moving a single unit. In the Overrun rule I do see where they wrote "...AFV (S) or cavalry..." so I see where the question is coming from. However a read of the entire section still IMHO looks like you move into the adjacent hex one at at time.

When Cav do assaults it they can do it from 2 hexes out and it seems like the whole stack can attack.

Cavalry units activated by a Cavalry Leader may conduct

assault movement (12.1) from two hexes away against
a unit it can spot.

12.1 Assault Movement.

12.11 Entering a Hex.
Only activated good-order units directed by a leader of
their own type (regular or tank), or by any leader for APCs,
may enter an adjacent hex occupied by enemy units. Entry
requires a “fire” activation since combat will result, even
though it’s movement too. This is called “assault movement.”


I was extrapolating from that thinking Overrun (and Extended Assault) would be the same. Otherwise those would both be pretty weak.

[richvalle]

Man, I hate trying to parse rules this close.

Extended assault does say it is like Cav. Though the rules read like it is a singular unit.

Extended Assault Similar to cavalry charge (15.31), an AFV unit activated by a tank leader (including loaded APCs, but excluding tanks with riders) may conduct extended assault from two or three hexes away.

On the other hand Overrun does seem to be plural:

Once the overrunning AFV(s) or cavalry enter the target assault hex,

The only way to get plural is if you move a unit up next to an enemy, it pauses while other units move up, then they all go in together.

I really think the intent is for a stack of units to assault at the same time though I am willing to admit I could be wrong.

[zaarin7]

I've posted the original question on the PG Series page on Consimworld. I'll post any reponce here.

[richvalle]

Hey, thanks! I was going to go there but was giving it some more time here.

[otto]

I think you move one unit at time, separately, straight into the assalt hex and you solve the assault once that all unit that have been activated are into that hex.
...of course there can be no more than three into the hex, but you can try to enter the hex with more than three units. I mean that if a tank unit is stopped by opportunity fire you can try with additional tanks made active during that activation until you reach the limit of three inside the hex. Then you solve the assault and afterwards you continue with your activation.

One thing I have to check is the following: I said you can try to bring additional unit into the assault hex if one of them is stopped by opportunity fire. Of course, you have to state at the start of the activation which units fire and which ones move. You can only use those units that declared to fire (as assault is considered a fire action)

[richvalle]

The way I was reading it is that they are doing Assault Movement (12.1) from more then 1 hex away like Cav do when they charge. I don't think Cav move one at a time... do they?

[otto]

I think that the fact that units move one at the time is a general rule and that there is no exception to it (leaders can move with the units but are not considered units).

[Hugmenot]

Cavalry units move one at a time when charging but the assault is conducted only after all the charging cavalry units participating units have entered the assault hex (some may have been stopped short as a result of opportunity fire).

Same principle for assaults, While I tend to grab all units and leaders which will assault an hex and move them together into the hex, it is technically incorrect, Units should move one at a time but as there are no opportunity fire possibility against units which start adjacent to the hex they are assaulting, it generally makes no practical difference whether they move one at a time or all together.

Note that it matters if the assault hex contains a minefield. If your first unit that enters the assault hex gets blown off by the mines, the second unit may just want to fire against the hex and no longer assault it.

For charges, it is almost always important because the defenders will generally use opportunity fire against the charging cavalry units. Cavalry units move one at a time and only one cavalry unit is affected by the results of any opportunity fire.

I have not looked at the Overrun rules yet so I will keep quiet for now,