Did anyone else notice the HMGs?

[plloyd1010]

Heers HMGs used to be 9-5/4-5, starting Lib'44 they are 9-5/5-5.
RKKA HMGs were 7-4/3-4, with KSF they became 7-4/4-4.
SS HMGs started as 11-5/5-5 in BN & RtB, but became 11-5/6-5 in Elsenborn.
The convention was infantry DF would be halved & rounded up when reduced, machine-gins would round down.

[Matt W]

Interesting as GREN are 6-3/2-3 which is exactly counter to the earlier treatment! I recall that there was an explanation but I accepted it as an indicator of the fragility of late war German formations after losses were taken.

[plloyd1010]

The grenadiers are a special case, justified by the fragility you just noted. That same fragility should somewhat apply to HMG units. The fundamental notion, at least in my mind, is that rifle armed personnel will recrew heavier weapons as the original operators are disabled. Not so difficult in an infantry platoon, but more so in support units.

[rerathbun]

Don't know why the HMG counters have changed, but plloyd and Matt W are correct about the Grenadiers.

From the Daily Content article The Men Behind the Counters:

by late 1942 to 1943 the German army had to take stock of their losses and were forced to change the structure of the platoon. Manpower was decreased but compensated by a firepower increase.

The game represents this by the late-war 6-3 GREN counter. This counter sees the firepower of the platoon increase by 1, but the unit is also now more brittle, having a reduced strength of just 2-3 to reflect the lower number of soldiers present. The revised platoon structure also saw the renaming of the infantry soldier into Grenadiers, hence the GREN on the counter.

[vince hughes]

Peter and everybody.

There have been Heer 5-5's for many a year. In fact, not sure whether it was Wayne or Alan I was playing, and when I flipped an MG to its reduced side, I noticed there were 2 different types. Got to be about 5 years ago. I'm sure I mentioned it on a post somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

[campsawyer]

Peter and everybody.

There have been Heer 5-5's for many a year. In fact, not sure whether it was Wayne or Alan I was playing, and when I flipped an MG to its reduced side, I noticed there were 2 different types. Got to be about 5 years ago. I'm sure I mentioned it on a post somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

Yeah that was a Skype game back in 2011. It was one of those I wonder why moments.

[vince hughes]

wow - Found it on CSW's usually awful search engine:
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Jul 19, 2010 7:48 pm (#21391 Total: 27891)

Question ONE !

Has anybody noticed that German Heer HMG counters with a step loss come as a 4-5 and a 5-5 strength ?

Most are 4-5, but what should they really be ?

[vince hughes]

Don't know if this commonly noticed but the BERS in DR and AK are differnt too when reduced:

2-3 in one and 3-3 in another.

[plloyd1010]

I had noticed the Bersaglieri in AK were probably wrong when I saw them. That was confirmed in my mind with FR, and later with Ariete Division. I suspected they were wrong because they violated the maxim I stated before.

I was wrong about which game the 9-5/5-5 Heers HMGs first appeared in. They first turned up in FoF. Since the PG lineup starts with Elsenborn, does that mean it is wrong? Mike B. says it must be a John S. change, and implies he wasn't aware of it. It doesn't make much practical difference to me because; a) no of you play with me anyway, and b) I quite capable of making whatever damn counters I feel like! On a systemic level, it perturbs my philosophical view of the game.

I had the same problem with the Soviet Guards 76.2mm field guns and the HoSU/RW German StuG IIIg (it really should be an 'f').

[rerathbun]

I just looked through my counter notes.

The Heer HMG is 9-5/5-5 in Fall of France and Burning Tigers, and 9-5/4-5 in everything else (the Airbornes, Afrika Korps, Beyond Normandy, Battle of the Bulge, Cassino, Desert Rats, Eastern Front, Elsenborn Ridge, Liberation 1944, Panzer Lehr, Road to Berlin and Heroes of the Soviet Union/Red Warriors.)

I'd treat the 9-5/5-5 HMGs as a counter error.