Burning Tigers

[vince hughes]

Are any of those regts taking part in the actual scenarios that Mike has provided ?

Even if they are, did they take part in the battle ?

I'd check myself but on holiday at present.

[mike perryman]

The lack of SU-152s in both Kursk games was intentional. I have the highest regard for Mr Glantz and his work and use them for my primary reference whenever possible. I also try to verify everything with at least one or two other sources and in this case the evidence pointed to at most one regiment of SU-152s (near Ponyri) at Kursk. The SU-152 was not ordered in to production until Feb. 14, 1943 leaving less then five months to modify the KV-1's production line and order new components like the main gun. Then the vehiles had to be inspected and shipped to their units. Once there the men had to be trained on them and tatics developed for their employement. No German AAR that I can find mentions them. In contrast when the JS-2 (a known tank) appeared in southern Russia a year later numerous paragraphs were devoted to it's appearance. The Tiger battalions war diary's detail their victories in great detail including T-60s and KV-IIs I had not expected to be present and fail to mention encountering SU-152s. Finally if you believe Ferdinand was used before the Porsche heavy tank destroyer was modified and renamed Elephant then alot of the Soviet archieves were rewritten long after the battle.
Thanks, Mike

[zaarin7]

Okay fine with that and all but the point still remains. There is a lot of the Kursk story still to be told in the Soviet counter offensive against the Orel salient and the final battle for Kharkov.

[larry marak]

Now that all 8 citadel maps are available, perhaps we can hope for a scenario book covering the grand Counterthrust.

[vince hughes]

Okay fine with that and all but the point still remains. There is a lot of the Kursk story still to be told in the Soviet counter offensive against the Orel salient and the final battle for Kharkov.

Keith,
I guess you answered that yourself ... with the "Still to be told" aspect. As these box=sets are now having to be useable for a one-off buyer (as opposed to a buyer that buys add-ons..... see, I said this would come home to roost), then counter count and what are in that counter set is premium. No SU's in the battles presented ..... No SU counters.

[rerathbun]

Okay fine with that and all but the point still remains. There is a lot of the Kursk story still to be told in the Soviet counter offensive against the Orel salient and the final battle for Kharkov.

Keith,
I guess you answered that yourself ... with the "Still to be told" aspect. As these box=sets are now having to be useable for a one-off buyer (as opposed to a buyer that buys add-ons..... see, I said this would come home to roost), then counter count and what are in that counter set is premium. No SU's in the battles presented ..... No SU counters.

Dr. Mike has mentioned a scenario book (a la Winter Soldiers) to complete the Kursk saga. Perhaps it can include some new counters . . .

[Hugmenot]

Noble Knight Games is selling Burning Tigers for $54.95 plus shipping; a great price for a great game!

[JayTownsend]

One of the hardest parts of designing a game, is staying in the 352 counter limit per game, so not every type of unit will make the cut.

[vince hughes]

Finally KNF arrived here on Saturday with 2 x boxes of the game. One for Wayne and one for me, along with Moroccan counters.

I've breezed over the counters (combat units) and the printing looks fine to me on KNF (no blurring so far from what I have seen fortunately). Have not tested the thickness against the others but they seem to be thicker than nearly all in the past except of course the shower tiles of Lib 44.The Maroc's appear OK too. Not sure I am in love with the Marocs colours ... undecided on that at present. The Desert Rats sheet appears very thick ? As for the new marker counters, I will in the main, probably stick with the old ones.

On the rulebook I've only just started reading it and will invest in highlighter pens to show new rules and define those I will use and won't use.

I did have one fear about the rulebook before printing and that was the size of it. The initial attractiveness to me about PG back in the day was the 16 page rule book. I was done with heavy rules tomes. This book on an initial flick through seems to contain everything BUT will its 36 or 42 pages frighten would be starters away ? I hope not. I think that had I been looking at the game way back then and I saw the size of the rule book I probably would not have bought into the system, but only because of my worry about the amount of rules. Now time to dig further.