low Saipan sales numbers...

[campsawyer]

I've always thought of WW2 starting on the Marco Polo Bridge (I've stood there) and ending in Tokyo Bay. Which sort of leaves North Africa and Europe as side shows.

Cheeky bastard ! lol

I found it weird when I went to the National Cemetary in Washington (or is it actually Arlington) and saw the WW2 inscription 1941-1945.

Now that is a curveball to a European

Not a curveball, just the date of the official US involvement in the war.

[campsawyer]

I also had a couple more thoughts on this matter (as originally posed by the watery one):

By not selling to retailers, none of these new laser cut products are going overseas. Not sure what amount of AP sales used to be to Europe and Asia, but without a US conduit, I would not be willing to pay the postage on games sent one at a time. Instead, I have to group them at my secret base deep in the N.American continent (a bored out caisson in a huge tree in an un-named National Park) before having them sent en masse !

Secondly, lets be honest. As much as we are glad that AP are getting product out the factory and into the streets, the fact remains that for most people ('most' derived from forum posters on CSW and some I have played). that the laser-cut counters are not really up to the standard of the die-cuts. Fortunately, the Kursk SS are used seperate to other SS produce, but the Russian mix does not stand too attractively next to their old die-cut counter-parts (no pun intended with the 'counter' 'part' of that word ).

At present, AP is more like a niche 'mail-order catalogue' company as opposed to a High-Street 'Biggie' in the wargames World. That alone will kerb sales as their offerings may fail to get past the more hard-core, in-the-know buyers and to the more general 'browsing' customer.

Agreed, APL has PG as its cash cow right now, albeit a bit limited.

[vince hughes]

Not a curveball, just the date of the official US involvement in the war.

Alan,

I can't remember the exact wording above on a plaque, but it was something like World War 2 1941-45. So, to somebody used to hearing 39 to 45, it left out the fact that the US's involvement was 41-45. Not that should be the Americans concern of course. So my initial reaction is "Uh, that date's wrong" until ........ and staying with baseball references here, the foreigner (me) remembered that the US came in as a pinch-hitter, albeit earlier than the 8th or 9th inning .

[Matt W]

The road back for AP will be a rocky one. Many bridges were burnt as is obvious by the comments herein. I am disheartened by those who say that they will *never* consider buying from AP again. The changes that have been made by the company have all been to move away from the problems that people have seen and complained about in the past. So the reward for reforming is to be shunned because of their past?

The easy road existed for Mike and AP. Bail on all those people who preordered and prepaid for product and fade into the woodwork (SPI anyone?). Plenty of business consultants would have suggested that recovery was nearly impossible, especially if the prepaid products were to be delivered. Bankruptcy or sale would have been the clear suggestions. AP didn't take that approach, and they continue to try to deliver on promises made. Whether you like their customer service or not the fact is that AP is delivering product promised and paid for. Most of us have received at least one product (KSF) we never expected to get and have seen others (Lehr, Saipan, and the printed versions of downloads) arrive with promises of more to come.

Complain all you want about unanswered emails or not quite pretty enough counters. That is certainly up to the individual, but I will put my money behind a company that has shown that it will risk everything and take the hardest road in order to make good on promises made years ago and which I and others had virtually given up on. That kind of integrity remains quite rare and is something to celebrate in today's business environment. Yes, it was a lack of integrity that got them to this position but how many times do you hear someone say "I was wrong" and then actually change their behavior? If that isn't something to reward, what is?

[campsawyer]

Not a curveball, just the date of the official US involvement in the war.

Alan,

I can't remember the exact wording above on a plaque, but it was something like World War 2 1941-45. So, to somebody used to hearing 39 to 45, it left out the fact that the US's involvement was 41-45. Not that should be the Americans concern of course. So my initial reaction is "Uh, that date's wrong" until ........ and staying with baseball references here, the foreigner (me) remembered that the US came in as a pinch-hitter, albeit earlier than the 8th or 9th inning .

I understand what you are saying and it is interesting as you are viewing from a historical and non-US point of view.

As for your analogy of baseball, I would see it as a relief pitcher in about the 4th or 5th inning and heavily behind in the game. This pitcher is just come up from the minor leagues and is still a bit green, but he is young. strong and has a sustaining fastball. So he can strikeout the opposition and this gives a morale boost to his hitters to rally and get the runs.

[vince hughes]

Not a curveball, just the date of the official US involvement in the war.

Alan,

I can't remember the exact wording above on a plaque, but it was something like World War 2 1941-45. So, to somebody used to hearing 39 to 45, it left out the fact that the US's involvement was 41-45. Not that should be the Americans concern of course. So my initial reaction is "Uh, that date's wrong" until ........ and staying with baseball references here, the foreigner (me) remembered that the US came in as a pinch-hitter, albeit earlier than the 8th or 9th inning .

I understand what you are saying and it is interesting as you are viewing from a historical and non-US point of view.

As for your analogy of baseball, I would see it as a relief pitcher in about the 4th or 5th inning and heavily behind in the game. This pitcher is just come up from the minor leagues and is still a bit green, but he is young. strong and has a sustaining fastball. So he can strikeout the opposition and this gives a morale boost to his hitters to rally and get the runs.

Lol, nice one, though I think he still conceded a few runs himself on the road to the pennant !

[vince hughes]

Or maybe a whole new franchise with a very rich owner !

[larry marak]

Even the rich new owner (Kurt Schilling) had to establish limits on how much he was going to sink into the new MMP tactical wargame publishing consortium.

I remember laughing out loud when I bicycled home from work and found the first half of Imperial Grenadier, Infantry Attacks, on my porch. I had given up all hope for Avalanche at that point.

[Hugmenot]

Even the rich new owner (Kurt Schilling) had to establish limits on how much he was going to sink into the new MMP tactical wargame publishing consortium.

I remember laughing out loud when I bicycled home from work and found the first half of Imperial Grenadier, Infantry Attacks, on my porch. I had given up all hope for Avalanche at that point.

Curt Schilling invested a lot more in '38 Studio and the way he recovered some of his money just before the company became insolvent is ... rather dubious. We'll see what the courts decide.

Curt Schilling, so hard core about speaking against any government involvement in private businesses until his private studio was at risk. Then cry, cry. cry, the government should do more to save the fiasco I created. I followed the whole '38 Studio saga on Gamasutra and the more I read what Schilling said, the more I came to profoundly dislike him.

[Hugmenot]

I agree the early (Panzer Lehr, Kurks South Flank) laser counters were not up to the die-cuts standard.

I would argue the last few sets (War on the Equator, Indian Mutiny, Nihon Silk) surpass that standard or use a different standard. I like their feel, weight, and consistent cut better than the die-cuts. My only gripe is these counters are darker which is really only a problem with the morale and fire modifiers of the Hyderabadi leaders. But these were all existing materials and my hope is AVP will use a lighter color scheme for the new stuff.