Rules question: Mire

[armyduck95]

Vince I actually agree with your interpretation too, and would prefer to play with the units effectively incapacitated that it cannot move or fire, but the crew is busy in recovery. and they may not have been able. But I was going with what is written in the rules which just say "move"...and of course that begs a follow-on .. can they attempt recovery if disrupted/demoralized while marked with move/fire and prohibited from moving or firing due to miring? See the slippery slope? And then here are some additional add-ons not in the mire rules that should be considered:

1. A demoralized mired unit forced to flee is eliminated (much like a movement "0" ordnance)
2. I almost think it better to treat mired units as:
a. Automatically disrupted (firing halved) which accounts for vehicles not in ideal firing positions and crews attempting to dislodge them, but also considers that not all vehicles in a platoon will likely be mired, or the ability of turrets and most vehicles having 360 degree capabilities; and more easily demoralized when coming under fire.
b. Treat them more like digging in rules - they are effectively "digging out" of being mired. - I guess with that approach they cannot move or fire either.

AD,

The rules I have do not just say Moved. They say place 3 x moved/fire marker on the unit and remove one each marker removal phase.

If a unit has a M/F marker on it it can not activate further. Either 'Move (recover or move) or fire (fire or assault).

It is simply mired and thats your lot so to speak.

However ! That all said, I only have the proposed 4th ed rules from John.S. What the final draft says is another thing and as it is a JS rule, he would be the best to clarify. So I will email him and try to get him on this forum to answer properly. I didn't want the mire rule for some of the terrain it is introduced to and like other 'innovations' or other SSR's, I can not stand rules introduced that does not cover all eventualities such as the questions here raise. That is why I just treat it as already activated BUT what if it becomes DEM ? Must it try and recover ? Should it ignore and continue to remove a marker ? These all need clarifying before it goes into print.

.

Vince,
Admittedly rule 16.6 Mire in the PzG Modern rule book is quite clear and I am probably drumming up non-issues. At least in PzG Modern rules I think it is actually quite clear. The Mire rule says a unit cannot move. Period. So playing the rule as written in PzG Modern tells me a unit can fire, recover, etc. do everything but move until "freed."
The rule for freeing a unit is to deduct the 3x Move/Fire Markers each turn and then roll to get out.

16.6: "Unless otherwise specified, on a result of 1 through 3 for wheeled vehicles, or 1 or 2 for naval units or tracked vehicles, the unit may no longer move for the remainder of the game unless subsequently “freed.” ...
...Place three Moved/Fired markers on the mired unit. In the marker removal phase remove one marker each turn until one remains. On the third marker removal phase roll one die, and on a result of 1 through 3 for wheeled vehicles, or 1 or 2 for naval or tracked vehicles they remain mired. Place another three Moved/Fired markers on the mired vehicle. Repeat as necessary."

In the end I think the rule here is clear except for the issue of fleeing as discussed. The issue of fleeing can go two ways - treat a mired unit like movement "0" ordnance and the unit is abandoned, or make it take an additional step loss in lieu of full elimination.