(07-07-2012, 11:36 AM)Blackcloud6 Wrote: " The plain fact remains that production numbers are the killer here. 7,800 Tigers and Panthers combined against what ? 50,000 T34 and M4's, 40,000 ? I don't know, even if it was 30,000 the numbers speak for themselves."
Bingo! In an industrial war of attrition, the side that makes the most of "good enough" is going to beat those that make only a small amount of "very good." When look at the tanks of WWII, one must look at them in toto; Strategically, operationally and importantly, logistically, as well as tactically. ThebPanther fails in many of those categories. Thus it was part of the overall series of strategic and operational decisions that doomed the Germans to a horrible defeat.
It is interesting that Kursk is mentioned. Some points: the a Germans were soundly defeated at Kursk, the Panther D made a very poor showing, especially maintenance-wise and they went up against T-34/76s and still lost. It would be interesting to see, though, where most Soviet losses occurred, during the German attacks at Kursk, or the Russian counterattacks. The Russians were very aggressive at Kursk and I believe some new sources are showing that both the Germans and Soviets inflated Russian tank losses at Kursk.
But I agree, all the Sherman really needs in PG is defense of 3. the 76mm ones are available.
Interesting point as tactically the Germans dominated at Kursk yet lost in every way that mattered. The bad performance of the Panthers could have been predicated when the Germans shunned experienced crews opting for rookies instead. Not even enough veterans to recognize small problems before they became major. No way to break in an untried vehicle,
On the Sherman discussion the one point not raised so far was their reliability of 90%. Whatever their faults a platoon usually when into battle with 5 tanks instead of their opponents 4. Just something to consider. The only other tank to approach that level of reliably was the Pz38t which explains why the chassis stayed in product so long.
It's funny as I have heard every other factor on the Sherman discussed but the direct fire value of 9 as it was at least as effective it this role as the German 75mm tanks were. The Firefly was originally undervalued in Beyond Normandy but the 8 range might be a bit high as German optics were superior. Just my thoughts.
Thanks, Mike
