4TH EDITION TABLE RELEASED.

[Brett Nicholson]

Actually, right now I am only gaming with two other people via Skype and am pretty sure that they will stick with the 3rd edition ruling for opportunity fire in our shared matches. However, should I take on a new opponent I will have to prepare to be reminded that "you can't do that because 4th edition rules state...etc." I'm sure I'll eventually adapt and maybe even come around to using that ruling. It's just that in my older age it's hard enough remembering the many rules of PG so when asked to deprogram something committed to memory it's just a little irksome. It's taken months just to incorporate the hill, only firing at higher elevation negative modifier to my solo plays instead of the any elevation ruling. Now I have to find that glass of prune juice ...

[JayTownsend]

What do you mean, I am busy writing the 5th Edition Rules!

Kidding!

[campsawyer]

What do you mean, I am busy writing the 5th Edition Rules!

Kidding!

oh no, superseded already. Just like software, always another release on the way. If that is the case I will stick with the 3rd edition until all the "bugs" are worked out.

[JayTownsend]

I was 100% joking Alan!

[Brett Nicholson]

I'm going to try to stay on topic here. However I am going to use another game system as an example. Way back in the 20th century there was this very simple, easy to learn, easy to play game called "Axis and Allies". It was basically a beer and pretzel game that you could teach anyone to play within a few minutes. Then a rival game company released an almost identical game but changed the name of it and added a ton of new units with special abilities and added tons of special rules. It was an expansion to the basic "Axis and Allies" game for people that wanted the existing game to be a little more technical and possibly more historically accurate. What this expansion did was slow the game turns down at least twice as much and made it that you could not easily introduce someone without any prior wargaming experience into it.

Since the 20th century the "Axis and Allies" game system has resurfaced in many forms, sometimes improved, sometimes not. I remember playing this one guy that always insisted on playing Germany but at the time I only had the original game and sure enough, everytime he lost with Germany he would cite the expansion rules, stating things like "If I had paratroop units or submarine pens then I probably would of won" or something to that extent. Anyway, I guess what I am getting at is that PG is a great game and it is great for it's relative simplicity as far as proper wargames go. I like it for some of the generic mechanics of it that are maybe not too technical or attempting to be overly historically accurate. Scenario SSRs seem to work enough for changing or customizing each individual play. I suppose my main concern is that if 4th edition changes too much then I am going to feel prompted to have to order a 4th edition game just to not only get a copy of the rules but to have an actual game that was designed with those rules-I don't like being prompted to do anything, especially when it comes to parting with cash. This also is like getting bullied into to buying an entirely new game system. It almost seems as if AP is saying to "forget all the games we released in the past (we won't be reprinting a lot of them anyway), buy new and buy now, order direct ... and don't forget to join the Gold Club while you're at it" -shady marketing at best. Anyway, that's all: love the game, loathe the company. If it's not fixed then don't break it?

[vince hughes]

As per the ubiquitous t-shirts, mugs, greetings cards etc

KEEP CALM

AND WAIT

[Brett Nicholson]

As per the ubiquitous t-shirts, mugs, greetings cards etc

KEEP CALM

AND WAIT

Wait a moment, you get a free tee-shirt and a coffee mug if you join the Gold Club? Sign me up homeboy! ... maybe they take payments in food stamps or third world currencies as well?

[Poor Yorek]

KEEP CALM

Kevin Bacon to the rescue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro

[waynebaumber]

As per the ubiquitous t-shirts, mugs, greetings cards etc

KEEP CALM

AND WAIT

He really means

KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

Which is the correct quote from the wartime poster now much plagiarized by all and sundry including Vince

[Matt W]

Brett,

In defense of Mike and AP in general, the 4th edition was moving in the direction you have identified in terms of totally revamping the system when several comments were made. Mike came out with a directive that, whatever changes were made, they were not to fundamentally change the game, especially in a manner which would invalidate the 1,800 or so scenarios that already existed.

This is why many of the proposed changes (such as those included in the PG:Modern system) are included as optional rules. It isn't that the proposals were bad or made PG less fun to play, merely that PG would not be the same game with those rules that it is today. Many would have made playing the game solitaire virtually impossible, some would have made a turn last much longer than they do now (elapsed time, not game time) and some would have fundamentally changed how one uses the various weapon systems.

As to why there is a fourth edition, many of us were asking for a revised set of rules to clarify some of the ambiguities. It was resisted for a very long time until the newest developer who also developed and designed the PG:Modern line stepped forward to do it. As in all things, be careful what you ask for, you just might get it! The project clearly took on a life of its own and almost, but not quite, changed PG into something entirely different.

Therefore, when it comes to the 4th edition there was no attempt to make it such a new product as to require wholesale repurchases of the line of products. On the other hand, some of the product "updates" have seemed to work that way (e.g. Edelweiss IV which requires one to rebuy the product in order to get 5 or so new scenarios). A few of us are addicted enough to get it (I have three versions or Arctic Front, including Lions of Finland, three of Airborne and three of Edelweiss). What I am seeing, however, from the company is a willingness to find ways to permit a more controlled "buy". Marianas only requires Saipan to play all of the scenarios. Patton's Nightmare only requires a couple boxed games.

Contrast this to some of the previous products which required multiple boxed games and supplements in order to play all of the scenarios. Idiots like me who have a large collection will be the only ones to ever play some of the truly esoteric scenarios (like the ones that require multiple copies of a map or multiple counter sets from a supplement) but the new products will be able to be played in their entirety without breaking the bank. This does require reengineering some of the old titles (especially the paper "historical" map products such as BN, Cassino, or Guadalcanal)but the end result will be the ability to play everything in a theater without having to break the bank to do so.

Having bought into the system when I did, I understand the dead ends and blind alleys that have been travelled by the system and appreciate the new approach. If however you want to play every scenario from Sinister Forces prepare to be frustrated.

I was a latecomer to Great War at Sea and Second World War at Sea and will not be able to ever play some of the scenarios as some of the necessary products no longer exist...