A lack of realism in Panzer Grenadier

[larry marak]

Just hope this factor is finally addressed in 4th edition rules.

Fear In Combat:

The U. S. military conducted some unique research projects utilizing combat veterans of the south and central Pacific. One such study concerned fear in combat and informed 18 and 19 year old recruits that they would be frightened . "Before you go into battle, you'll be frightened at the uncertainty at the thought of being killed. Will it hurt? Will you know what to do? If you say you're not scared, you'll be a cocky fool. Don't let anyone tell you that you are a coward if you admit being scared'. This study, based on the experience of 2,095 combat veterans, reported the following percentage of occurrence of specific symptoms of fear in combat:

Violent pounding of heart 84%
Feeling faint or weak 49%
Sinking stomach feeling 69%
Feeling of stiffness 45%
Shaking & trembling 61%
Vomiting 27%
Sick stomach 55%
Losing control of bowels 21%
Cold sweat 56%
Urinating in pants 10%
Source: War Department Pamphlet 21-13,1944

[joe_oppenheimer]

I think the losing bowel control is already included in the Disrupted and Demoralized results.

[vince hughes]

Morale factor and as Joe says, DIS & DEM ?

[campsawyer]

I see not rules changed required. I believe all of these items listed describe the results of two FtF players in a very close game.

[Poor Yorek]

We need PG analogues to: http://paizo.com/products/btpy8x9f?Pathf...tion-Cards.

I must confess that the first thought I had upon reading this was a flashback to those D&D and/or Pathfinder "conditions" such as fatigued, nauseated, petrified, sickened, and the dreaded energy drained.

Peter, you have your assignment! :-)

[plloyd1010]

As much as I am into house rules for realism, I think I'll pass this one. Too much bookkeeping and PG stacks get too tall as it is.

[richvalle]

Eh, Disrupted and Demoralized work well enough as I can attest to when looking at the masses of non-moving troops I have spread across the board at the end of games.

At the platoon level it doesn't matter if some guys have pounding hearts or feeling weak as long as most the platoon functions well enough. And since WWII did happen and battles were fought troops could and did fight.

rv

[otto]

Just fof the sake of it and Not suggesting any rule change but
I think that what is missing is not the dem or dis morale occurring to single units but what could happen to larger formations i.e. at company or regimental level. Such a group of units could flee immediately a position due to moral reasons. Sometimes PG is a bit static from this point of view with a bit less of ebb and flow than I would expect.

[larry marak]

Gee, I was just thinking about some new poopy pants counters..............

On a serious note though, Otto, the first edition rules for the morale effects of a battalian HQ being overrun might actually do for large formation morale effects. Someone here could repost them...

[plloyd1010]

Larry, I just happen to have the 2nd Ed HQ rules in my project folder. I assume it is similar to the 1st Ed version.

15.1 Headquarters (HQ).
In some scenarios, headquarters are present as units. HQ units indicate the morale of a side's forces. The numbers in white/red in the lower right-hand corner of the HQ unit correspond to the full/reduced strength morale of that side's units specified in the scenario instructions (see 14.0).
The loss of an HQ unit is catastrophic; no friendly unit within 15 hexes of where the HQ unit was destroyed may move during the remainder of the current turn or during the two subsequent turns.

I suspect that Ottavio was thinking of more a "panic contagion" rule. Perhaps like was in Battles & Leaders, an ACW wargame from Yaquinto some time back.