[Rules] AT fire *during* assault

[larrymm]

This came up during a RtB scenario: 2 Soviet INF (5 DF), 1 ATR (3 DF/1 AT), 1 Lt. activate for FIRE in a hex adjacent to a GE PzIIIG. The Soviet units all move into the Pz's hex for Assault. Because this is an Assault, my understanding is that only DF factors are used (13 total) and the attack is resolved on the Assault Table. So far so good...I think. Here are my questions:

1. As the activation is for FIRE, can the ATR unit move into the Pz's hex with the other units but attack with its 1 AT factor on the AT Fire table instead of contributing its 3 DF factors to the mandatory Assault? [not saying this is advisable, just is it permissible]

2. In subsequent turns, assuming all starting units survive, can the ATR activate for FIRE and attack with AT while the INF units activate for FIRE and Assault as a separate attack?

3. If the Pz initiates an Assault in its activation, can the ATR return fire using its AT factor on the AT Fire Table while the INF units use their DF on the Assault Table?

The RtB SSR cover infantry AT weapons in assault for German units, but not for the Soviets. It seems to me that ATR units should have some special benefits that better reflect their historical effectiveness; though even being able to use 1 AT factor in an Assault would not be quite sufficient.

[vince hughes]

This came up during a RtB scenario: 2 Soviet INF (5 DF), 1 ATR (3 DF/1 AT), 1 Lt. activate for FIRE in a hex adjacent to a GE PzIIIG. The Soviet units all move into the Pz's hex for Assault. Because this is an Assault, my understanding is that only DF factors are used (13 total) and the attack is resolved on the Assault Table. So far so good...I think. Here are my questions:

1. As the activation is for FIRE, can the ATR unit move into the Pz's hex with the other units but attack with its 1 AT factor on the AT Fire table instead of contributing its 3 DF factors to the mandatory Assault? [not saying this is advisable, just is it permissible]

2. In subsequent turns, assuming all starting units survive, can the ATR activate for FIRE and attack with AT while the INF units activate for FIRE and Assault as a separate attack?

3. If the Pz initiates an Assault in its activation, can the ATR return fire using its AT factor on the AT Fire Table while the INF units use their DF on the Assault Table?

The RtB SSR cover infantry AT weapons in assault for German units, but not for the Soviets. It seems to me that ATR units should have some special benefits that better reflect their historical effectiveness; though even being able to use 1 AT factor in an Assault would not be quite sufficient.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. ATR units still can only fire ATR's as per AT fire in an assault or use their DF value as per normal assault. The Soviets have no decent INF AT weapons. ATR's were fine against early war vehicles but will always struggle against later PzIII's and IV's and above.

[Matt W]

Note however that the Soviet ATRs are very useful in setting up crossfires. (not, however, when in an assault hex...)

[vince hughes]

Note however that the Soviet ATRs are very useful in setting up crossfires. (not, however, when in an assault hex...)

I remember Wayne almost caught me out with that ATR trick in one game .......... won't happen again !

[campsawyer]

For item number 3, I believe the answer is no. Per 12.3 all enemy units in the hex must defend as one combined strength. The ATR at this point would be considered the enemy unit as the panzer initiated the assault. So they would have to defend with there DF rather than attack with their AT. This would also be similar to how short range INF AT works as well. They cannot use their AT on defense only when attacking.

From a practical perspective, I would not want to use the AT as the DF is higher anyway.

[larrymm]

Wow, you guys are quick on the response! Thanks for the clarifications. It seems then that the only time an ATR (or an AFV, for that matter) can't use its AT factor in an assault hex is against exiting units. Is this correct?

[campsawyer]

Wow, you guys are quick on the response! Thanks for the clarifications. It seems then that the only time an ATR (or an AFV, for that matter) can't use its AT factor in an assault hex is against exiting units. Is this correct?

No, just the opposite. When they are the attackers they can choose to use AT from a unit that has an AT factor. A further clarification on Exiting an Assault hex see the annotated rules 12.12 Exiting an Assault for details on the clarification.

[larrymm]

For item number 3, I believe the answer is no. Per 12.3 all enemy units in the hex must defend as one combined strength. The ATR at this point would be considered the enemy unit as the panzer initiated the assault. So they would have to defend with there DF rather than attack with their AT. This would also be similar to how short range INF AT works as well. They cannot use their AT on defense only when attacking.

From a practical perspective, I would not want to use the AT as the DF is higher anyway.

Agreed, 12.3 is explicit about defense, so ATR uses its DF in this case.

As for attacking with the ATR's 1 AT factor, it makes sense only if 1) there is any chance of success and 2) if its 3 DF doesn't give a column increase for assault.

[Hugmenot]

As for attacking with the ATR's 1 AT factor, it makes sense only if 1) there is any chance of success and 2) if its 3 DF doesn't give a column increase for assault.

Keep in mind if the ATR is firing with its AT factor, it is not participating in the assault and thus cannot be selected to satisfy the step losses, if any.

It may be worthwhile for them to participate in the assault even if they don't give a column shift if the other units are much more valuable.

[larrymm]

It may be worthwhile for them to participate in the assault even if they don't give a column shift if the other units are much more valuable.

Indeed, good point! Reminds me of the ancient tactic employed in Avalon Hill games, i.e. ATRs as "soak-off" units.