[House Rules] admittedly insane: adding chit-draw to determine activation

[Shad]

In PG you roll for turn initiative, but from there on it is predictably either/or.

What if instead of either/or, the opponents rolled or drew chits for the right to get the next activation?

Then sometimes you might go 1-2-1-2-1-2, and other times you might go 1-1-1-2-2-2.

I have never tried it. The idea just popped into my head.

I guess you'd have to ignore the Fog of War rules to make sure both players got enough activations.

Seems potentially very interesting though...

[upintheattic]

Definitely either/or on chit draw vs. FOW. There's also the issue of initiative rating. If both sides have the same initiative, then just go with standard chit draw, but if one side has a much lower initiative than the other, then it should not be able to activate more than twice in a row (if that).

[upintheattic]

After further throught, here's a better way to do it: During each turn's Initaitive Determination Phase, each player puts a number of chits in the cup equal to his current initiative rating plus the number of undemoralized leaders he has on the board at that time. And if his top-ranking officer is demoralized or has been killed, he reduces the number of chits he puts in the cup by two for that leader instead of one. That makes leader demoralization or loss loss is even more hurtful because it reduces how many chits you can put in the cup either temporarily or permanently.

[broadsword]

Good topic.
It does seem -- at first glance -- a weakness of the PG system that a unit activates just as easily to move and fight on Turn 1 as it would after hours of combat on Turn 31.

But somehow I think adding that layer of activation "friction" could make the game agonizingly slow and throw off the whole system. Not sure. It seems like the existing limits on activation and types of activation put just enough brakes on being able to move any unit anywhere, so that we end up with simple mechanics and reasonable results.

I devised a house rule system for activation that uses leaders' morale ratings to set up their starting/maximum level of "action points" for the battle:

Morale 7 = 24 APs
Morale 8 = 27 APs
Morale 9 = 30 APs
Morale 10 = 34 APs
Morale 11 = 37 APs

To activate a leader, you'd pick the initiating leader (the one you want to start the chain of activations) and first have to roll D36 against their current number of Action Points.

If the dieroll is LESS than the leader's current number of APs...
Activation is successful. Rotate the leader counter 90 degrees to signify "activation attempted" status and subtract 1 AP from his total. If this leader was already on his "already activated" status, subtract 2 APs. This leader can now activate his stack, subordinate chain, etc., and those leaders activate automatically.

If the dieroll is EQUAL TO or GREATER THAN the current number of APs...
Activation fails. Rotate the leader counter 90 degrees and subtract 2 APs from his total. (You can now try to activate a different leader, but trying all these independent activations will burn up your APs faster than letting your more senior or better leaders activate their chain of command)

In the Marker Removal Phase of each turn, Check all leader counters for Action Point Recovery: Leaders that didn't attempt activation (the ones not rotated) regain 2 APs (but can't exceed their maximum level). Leaders who attempted activation (whether successful or not) don't regain any APs.

After all leaders' APs have been checked and adjustments made, restore all leader counters to normal (vertical) rotation.

This recovery rule rewards players for resting their units, but also puts them in a more realistic dilemma: Should I push that company to make one more attack before the opportunity passes, or will they be left "out of gas" later in the day, when I really need them to activate?

Tracking the changing totals of leader points in the physical PG game would require a track or bookkeeping. But I find it easy because I play only in Cyberboard (created a module for my own use), where I can write little notes about all sorts of things and attach them to counters, so they appear in a popup window when I mouse over the counter.

I've never tested this activation system in-game, so it may or may not work right and probably needs tweaking with the points and dierolls. I don't know whether leaders would burn out too fast, recover too little, etc.

But it's based on the "Headquarters Morale" rules that Joseph Balkoski included in his terrific battalion-level system for Saint-Lo (West End Games, 1986) and in that game the rules really add greatly to FOW, solitaire play value, and less-predictable game play.

[Shad]

(Broadsword, will reply to your post later. Need some time to digest it! )

Here's my attempt to codify Doug (UITA) and my's idea into something that look likes rules:

Chit-draw PG

1. At the start of the turn do not roll for initiative.
   
2. Each player places into the same cup a number of chits equal to their current initiative + their total number of leaders on the map in play. (Do not include chits for reinforcements or other such units that have not yet entered play until the turn they are scheduled to enter.)
   
3. To begin an activation, draw a chit from the cup.
   
4. If the cup is empty and there are still potential activations, proceed with alternating activations as per the standard PG rules.
   
5. If a player has no further remaining activations, ignore any of his chits drawn. The other player finishes out the turn as usual.
   

Notes

• you will need a cup
  
• do not use the fog of war rule
  
• do not eat the chits
  

Hmm?

[upintheattic]

I like the idea of a highly energetic CO causing a battalion to have more activation points, but I hate bookkeeping so I wouldn't go for that level of detail. Instead, I'd throw in an extra chit each turn for each morale point the CO has above 9 (as long as he's alive and undemoralized).

I also like the idea of troops getting tired as the battle drags on, so I'd say reduce the number of chits in the cup by one on each side for every full hour after Turn 12 (meaning one less chit per player starting Turn 16, two less starting Turn 20, etc.) and then one less chit per half hour after Turn 24 (meaning reduce chits on Turn 26, Turn 28, etc). Players can delay chit reduction by one turn for each turn on which they rest their troops, meaning taking no more than X number of action segments that turn (less in small scenarios, more in big ones; this is the only bookkeeping required other than keeping track of turns elapsed). That might add an extra level of urgency and planning to play and even be something of a cure for the horribly long scenarios one finds in early games in the series, since the scenario would have to end when both players' troops become totally exhausted (in game terms, neither player can put chits in the cup because of the chit reductions over time).

[upintheattic]

(Broadsword, will reply to your post later. Need some time to digest it! )

Here's my attempt to codify Doug (UITA) and my's idea into something that look likes rules:

Chit-draw PG

1. At the start of the turn do not roll for initiative.
   
2. Each player places into the same cup a number of chits equal to their current initiative + their total number of leaders on the map in play. (Do not include chits for reinforcements or other such units that have not yet entered play until the turn they are scheduled to enter.)
   
3. To begin an activation, draw a chit from the cup.
   
4. If the cup is empty and there are still potential activations, proceed with alternating activations as per the standard PG rules.
   
5. If a player has no further remaining activations, ignore any of his chits drawn. The other player finishes out the turn as usual.
   

Notes

• you will need a cup
  
• do not use the fog of war rule
  
• do not eat the chits
  

Hmm?

That's looking a little hybridized. I think it'd be better to nix alternating activations completely and just go with chit-draw activation, meaning once all chits are drawn that's it, you're done for the turn just as if you'd rolled FOW.

[Shad]

That's looking a little hybridized. I think it'd be better to nix alternating activations completely and just go with chit-draw activation, meaning once all chits are drawn that's it, you're done for the turn just as if you'd rolled FOW.

You're not worried about the Soviets getting only 5 chits with 20~25 platoons on the board? And what about forced demoralization recovery?

[upintheattic]

That's looking a little hybridized. I think it'd be better to nix alternating activations completely and just go with chit-draw activation, meaning once all chits are drawn that's it, you're done for the turn just as if you'd rolled FOW.

You're not worried about the Soviets getting only 5 chits with 20~25 platoons on the board? And what about forced demoralization recovery?

Actually, I was. If one chit per leader is too few, go with two per leader.

As for forced demoralization recovery, it doesn't happen in standard PG if the turn ends due to FOW before you've tried to recover the unit. The chit draw system would likely be tougher on demoralized units that have fled since a player will be unlikely to burn a whole chit on recovering a lone demoralized unit. Odds are, this system would be a relatively brutal variant that would result in quicker games.

[campsawyer]

Interesting discussion, but if I wanted a chit draw version of PG, I would play White Star Rising. That has this mechanic in it and it is much simpler.

I rather like the predictability, ie chess like, activations for PG. There is enough other randomness to compensate for this predictability.

But continue on to see where the stream of though goes.