A haiku to uselessness: the ATR

[Shad]

Look! Panzers coming!
*blam* *blam* *blam* *blam* *blam* *blam* *blam*
Panzers coming! Run!

The Soviet Anti-tank Rifle platoons in PG come in 3 flavors...

NKVD


RKKA


and Guards


With a range of 2~3 hexes and an AT fire consistently rated at 1, the only thing I can ever imagine these destroying is a truck.

But I love them.

I love their little pose, standing in noble futility sighting down an outrageously long barrel towards the oncoming, nigh invulnerable Nazi AFVs...

Long live the ATR, best worst unit in PG!

[tanzerleader]

haha excellent. obviously the guards flavour is the tastiest.
they are just as effective as a French 25mm anti-tank gun though

[upintheattic]

Only thing I ever use them for is getting crossfire bonuses. Let them hide in the woods, then run out early in the turn and start plinking! Then your tanks can fire later in the turn from the opposite direction and get the bonuses.

[vince hughes]

Shad,

To imagine a platoon of ATR's taking out a whole tank platoon is going to be a very rare thing and only then maybe only when PzI's and II's arrive.

HOWEVER, to reinforce what Dave said. I have always 'cocked a snook' at them, until one day, against Wayne, whilst ignoring said platoon, he fired them at some PzIII's. Comfortable with him needing box-cars, I happily saw his rolled 7's either bounce off the tin or go whizzing across my bows.

However, what he had actually done was set up a cross fire and when his 'T'-"whatever it may have been" fired and copped the crossfire bonus, I was suddenly feeling a little embarrassed. Fortunately, it was still a miss and the PzIII'S quickly scuttled to a safer position, but ne'er more do I 'cock' that 'snook', and nowadays keep a wary beady eye on the ATR's furtive moves :-)

[J6A]

Well, ATRs were designed in a time when tank armor wasn't as thick. IIRC, they were mostly relegated to trying to knock out treads and immobilize all but the lightest tanks. So, using them mostly to supply crossfire bonuses makes sense to me.

[Blackcloud6]

Well, ATRs were designed in a time when tank armor wasn't as thick. IIRC, they were mostly relegated to trying to knock out treads and immobilize all but the lightest tanks. So, using them mostly to supply crossfire bonuses makes sense to me.

The PTRS-41 and other Soviet ATRs are interesting guns, especially whe it comes to wargaming. The games, and many gamers seem to discount them as ineffective and obsolete, but I wonder about this given two facts:

1. The Germans feared them. They fear them so much that they launched a major survivability program to defeat the B32 14.5mm AP-T round. This program resulted I the Schuerzen armor which was mild steel plates designed to protect the weaker side armor of tanks and assault guns. The armor blunted the B32 and, importantly, caused it to yaw, thus making it less likely to penetrate the main armor. The B32 was notorious for yawning. I should say "is" nor options as it is stillin service today. The Schuerzen did not come onto German tanks until 1943, so the round was still a threat mid-war. I employed right, it could kill tanks from the side and rear. Even the Panther had Schuerzen to protect an area vulnerable to the ATR.

2. The Soviets kept this weapon in frontline service up until the end of the war. There had to be a reason as to why. Again, it was the threat this weapon gave to the Mk IV tank and STug III to the sides and rear. those vehicles were mainstays the German Army right to the bitter end.

I got to fire one of these rigles about 10 years ago. What a hoot!

[vince hughes]

]


The PTRS-41 and other Soviet ATRs are interesting guns, especially whe it comes to wargaming. The games, and many gamers seem to discount them as ineffective and obsolete, but I wonder about this given two facts:

Hi Fred,

I think in a single counter = single tank game, ATR's come out just fine and can be depicted for their actual worth. Once the scale gets bigger, that gets kind of lost, although I can confirm I do keep PzI and II's plus Hanomags away from ATR's ... Against these creatures, the ATR does have a bite.

[Blackcloud6]

Hi Fred,

I think in a single counter = single tank game, ATR's come out just fine and can be depicted for their actual worth. Once the scale gets bigger, that gets kind of lost, although I can confirm I do keep PzI and II's plus Hanomags away from ATR's ... Against these creatures, the ATR does have a bite.

Hi Vince:

Sure, in a higher resolution game scale ATRs can show what they can do. I have no issues with the way they work in PG. As mentioned above, they have a value in setting up those crossfire shots or at least threatening to do so. Thus the enemy player has to do something to counter it. It is the discovery of these subtle tactics in PG that make the game shine. They are not useless in PG , nor were they in real life is really the point i was trying to make.

[Poor Yorek]

Didn't the German 75mm IG get discussed in a similar vein at some point in the past? Other than crossfire bonus and scaring INF out of trucks or half-tracks with the AT value (both of which are useful), that 4-12 DF doesn't accomplish much.

[upintheattic]

Didn't the German 75mm IG get discussed in a similar vein at some point in the past? Other than crossfire bonus and scaring INF out of trucks or half-tracks with the AT value (both of which are useful), that 4-12 DF doesn't accomplish much.

Not much, but something: It's the only early-war DF weapon I can recollect that can hit enemy units at maximum spotting range. Granted, it won't do much on the 2 column at that range (or the 4 column with op fire), but it does mean they can't just fart in your general direction if they remain beyond AFV or HMG fire range while their OBA pounds you into paste (a problem in those overlong scenarios from early games). Best use for it in that situation is probably to target their leaders; disrupt their top-ranking officer and you've at least momentarily killed their ability to activate most of their force in one segment through subordinate activation.