Panzer & two expansions

[awdougherty]

I just ordered Panzer during the recent sale, risking only $60 on this system. If I like it, great and if not, I'm not out a ton of money. My only previous experience with the system is a copy MBT that I picked up many moons ago. I had trouble grasping some concepts, and the addition of air power certainly didn't help me in that regard. I'm hoping that this time around I can get a better handle on things.

So far, I've found the first thirty pages or so to be really easy to read, although once I got to the Advanced Rules, I felt like I noticed a dumb typo on every page. I'm not sure the Ammo Limits stuff all made sense to me (seems like there is an Ammo Limit modifier to hit that can be combined with other Ammo Limit modifiers to hit but all of a sudden an example seemed to apply the modifier to the roll that actually checks if the Ammo Limit effect kicked in...), but the rulebook is thorough. Just make sure you have the vehicle cards nearby to reference with the examples.

The rulebook is also very thorough... the vibe I get from Panzer is that it was made so that you could hand it to a total wargaming neophyte and that neophyte could crawl, then walk, then run toward a pretty in-depth tactical system.

I also suspect that the bookkeeping might end up being a giant pain once you get to the full monty, but we'll see how that goes.

The components are pretty top notch. I would kill for oversized hexes, counters, and maps (and other such wargaming luxuries) in Panzer Grenadier, or short of killing, I would definitely pay $120 per game for deluxe versions that included things like this.

[Michael Murphy]

I'm familiar with data cards. ATS has one for nearly every vehicle. Sadly, ATS and I aren't interested in each other anymore. Also, as mentioned earlier, I'm through with (at least owning) ASL. The complexity and size of "the game" became more than I want to handle. Still, I do have a hankering for the occasional squad-level. That's why I took a chance on Panzer.

One thing that caught my attention is the scale of the maps that both games use. Each hex is 100 meters (IRRC). The scale that PG uses is 200 meters. In Pz, the LOS is determined just as in PG. What this tells me is that I can almost use my PG or IA maps as part of any DYO I may choose to play. That gives me almost 50 new maps from which to choose.

Now I just hope that I like the system and it appeals to me.

[Shad]

There's a nice photo over on BGG right now:

[campsawyer]

They are also on CSW, too. I have been following this. It is very interesting as the guy playing this is adopted miniatures into the cardboard game. I can see this could be very easy to do given the counter and hex size. I have been thinking of adopting to a large diorama board that my son build, but time is my enemy.

[awdougherty]

Saw that photo floating around and while I haven't read far enough into the rules yet, I assume there must be things covering the turret not facing the same direction as movement. ATS has these little turret counters that sit on top of the tank counter, but these minis seem like a great idea for that, especially given how the counters barely have any info on them. The cards cover what you need.

Anyone know who makes those minis?

Michael Murphy, I'd be curious to hear why you and ATS broke up, but maybe that's something better taken to another thread.

[JayTownsend]

Never bought any of these games. Looks more detailed than I want?