PG Pricing

[Shad]

One side-effect of AP switching to the laser-cut counter system is that there are no 3rd party discount retailers to purchase from. If you want a new game, you gotta get it from the source.

So, for example, we have Saipan retailing at $64.99.

Are 40 PG scenarios, 4 maps, and 330 laser-cut units worth $64.99 + shipping to you?

I realize there is a large contingent of members on this site who would probably buy a turd in a PG box and some protective ziplock baggies to go with it. If you're one of those guys, try to approach the question more as a how happy are you paying that price? rather than a flat-out would you buy? kind of mindset.

And lest Jay come after me for it, let me make it explicitly clear that I am using Saipan only as an example. The question is regarding PG pricing for boxed games in general since the 3rd party discount purchase option has of late been unavailable...

[vince hughes]

People pay a lot more for just 10 or 12 ASL scenarios ?

PG's pricing is not off the map, or certainly not in my experience of game buying here in the UK. There are a lot more expensive products with less in the box.

What I would say is that in most cases, I am guessing those other companies plough a lot more time into development versus practically zero from AP. Yes, Jay says (using Saipan as an example) John.S had some kind of hand in the Saipan development. But take a look just how many questions the Sawyerbean was able to come up with with just ONE playing of scenario.1. That is not good. In fact, if a PG virgin bought the game, think of the travails they would have to go through to try and work out the rules.

Finally, using EFD as an example. I paid £40 for that 4 years ago. The amount of play I have had out of that box PLUS the use of its counters and maps for other extensions is by far the most I have had out of a game box-set. And I still have around 82 scenarios left to play .. LOL

To summarise for my stance. PG = Good value, but I do bemoan the lack of editing and development.

[waynebaumber]

People pay a lot more for just 10 or 12 ASL scenarios ?

PG's pricing is not off the map, or certainly not in my experience of game buying here in the UK. There are a lot more expensive products with less in the box.

What I would say is that in most cases, I am guessing those other companies plough a lot more time into development versus practically zero from AP. Yes, Jay says (using Saipan as an example) John.S had some kind of hand in the Saipan development. But take a look just how many questions the Sawyerbean was able to come up with with just ONE playing of scenario.1. That is not good. In fact, if a PG virgin bought the game, think of the travails they would have to go through to try and work out the rules.

Finally, using EFD as an example. I paid £40 for that 4 years ago. The amount of play I have had out of that box PLUS the use of its counters and maps for other extensions is by far the most I have had out of a game box-set. And I still have around 82 scenarios left to play .. LOL

To summarise for my stance. PG = Good value, but I do bemoan the lack of editing and development.

I concur with my right Honorable friend

[Dean_P]

Maybe I'm just an anomaly, but I've not made a purchase of P-G based on price alone and number of counters/maps. As has often been pointed out, when compared to the cost of movies, these types of games are cheap. Yea, not a fair comparison, but $75 for a game isn't outrageous. That said, will it sell as well as Elsenborn Ridge? Not a chance...

Then again, does it need to sell as well as Elsenborn? I don't think so. If it's a clean game, of a desirable topic, it will sell. If it needs a good editing, and is of a really esoteric area of the war, it won't sell no matter what it's priced at.

[zovs]

In ASL $50-75 we would be expecting maps, counters and at least 10 scenarios.

Normally just a scenario pack pack of 10-20 scenarios runs from $15 to $25.

Throw in a map $25-$35

Throw in some counters then $40-$100 depending on who, what and where.

For example MMP just produced the latest Journal with 16 scenarios, 48 pages and with some hard mounted play aids which runs for $28 (pre-order was $21).

Action pack #4 came with 3 maps and 12 scenarios and is going for $30 (can't recall the pre-order price I paid, thinking $20).

Beyond Valor (the basic building block sans the rules, granted the Rules are $80.00) is $115 but you get: 10 maps, 24 scenarios and 14 counter sheets (3k counters).

Now if we go to a Third Party Publisher (TPP) Critical Hit (CH) then it's a little different.

Most of CH stuff that includes counters, maps, 10-20 scenarios run from $35-$100, the quality is not as great but it's an itch.

Bounding Fire Productions (BFP) which is the top notch TPP runs from as low as $50 to the two highest $125 (Blood & Jungle and Crucible of Steel, PTO and Kursk respectifully).

Just throwing out some stats.

[larry marak]

An excellent and difficult question. I am currently, despite the recession and several cuts in pay, able to continue buying new PG product, but I alway take advantage of pre-orders, as I suspect all Gold Clubbers do, so my price for Saipan was less than $60. Once every 4 to 6 months I could see paying $75 for a boxed PG game, and there are still enough areas to be covered that a dozen more could be done.

How much more are customers willing to pay? It sounds more and more like Sword of David will be a EFD sized product priced around $125 if die cut and prohibitively more if lasered. I'm beginning to fear that this may be the back-breaker for AP.


I think books with countersets or maps will be a bigger source of revenue for AP.
Currently they provide 30 scenarios and a campaign sequence with counters for $30 ($24 Gold Club), which is probably underpriced. Compare 60 scenarios with 2 countersheets and 2 campaign sequences with 40 scenarios, 4 maps and 2 sheets of unit counters in Saipan.

[campsawyer]

An excellent and difficult question. I am currently, despite the recession and several cuts in pay, able to continue buying new PG product, but I alway take advantage of pre-orders, as I suspect all Gold Clubbers do, so my price for Saipan was less than $60. Once every 4 to 6 months I could see paying $75 for a boxed PG game, and there are still enough areas to be covered that a dozen more could be done.

How much more are customers willing to pay? It sounds more and more like Sword of David will be a EFD sized product priced around $125 if die cut and prohibitively more if lasered. I'm beginning to fear that this may be the back-breaker for AP.


I think books with countersets or maps will be a bigger source of revenue for AP.
Currently they provide 30 scenarios and a campaign sequence with counters for $30 ($24 Gold Club), which is probably underpriced. Compare 60 scenarios with 2 countersheets and 2 campaign sequences with 40 scenarios, 4 maps and 2 sheets of unit counters in Saipan.

Wow, Larry where are you getting the numbers for SoD. EFD still lists for $79.99 and last I saw with playtesting, it was looking like 4 maps and 2.5 countersheets. Mike B. can charge what he wants, but $125 seems like it would be too big of increase for the game, and a deal breaker as you state.

[larry marak]

Keep in mind EFD was printed in China long ago in a galaxy far away. Under todays' circumstances, EDF would probably be published as 3 games at $70@ over a 3 year period. Mike B. has spoken about extensive components, so maybe he's refering to very large rules and scenario books and extensive use of color on charts. Still, he states that lasering the game would be too costly at the moment.

Its a sad bottleneck. IIRC, the second half of Infantry Attacks was schedualed for the presses, but bumped by KSF, then Maine, then Saipan.

[Dean_P]

An excellent and difficult question. I am currently, despite the recession and several cuts in pay, able to continue buying new PG product, but I alway take advantage of pre-orders, as I suspect all Gold Clubbers do, so my price for Saipan was less than $60. Once every 4 to 6 months I could see paying $75 for a boxed PG game, and there are still enough areas to be covered that a dozen more could be done.

How much more are customers willing to pay? It sounds more and more like Sword of David will be a EFD sized product priced around $125 if die cut and prohibitively more if lasered. I'm beginning to fear that this may be the back-breaker for AP.

While it doesn't always hold true, there are certainly psychological barriers to buying a game, and I think $100 is clearly such a barrier. For instance, I believe the $99.99 cost of Cassino is sufficiently high to keep people from buying this title. I'm not sure how many more copies would have been sold at $75, but am sure the number would be higher.

And if a recent BBG threat is any sign, there's a clear need for a high ranked, relatively cheap game for people to buy to see whether they like the system - luckily we have Elsenborn Ridge that perfectly fits that role.

[vince hughes]

I always wince at the price of a full tank of petrol (gas) ... Look at the cost of that compared to a game price, and one sees how much excellent value we get out of any of our favoured games.