LoS question

[Sonora]

Congrats to Col. Sonichu for discovering this gamey, LOS circumstance.

Unfortunately, the LOS examples in the 4th Edition rule book don't cover this exact situation. I would say that the LOS is blocked using Peter's logic, but perhaps that is too "realistic" a view. Based on blackcloud6's strict reading of the rules, that American Major or the German Lieutenant may be able to see each other - although the guy on the 60-meter hilltop is dug-in.

BUT HEY, those are some eagle-eyed observers on either end of that range thread at 3,200 meters, even though this example is in desert terrain!

I say flip a coin to pick an interpretation that both players can use in this particular scenario.

[Schoenwulf]

Agree on the coin flip, as long as "heads it's blocked and tails they can't see each other"

[Miguelibal]

Absolutely, play on and enjoy this fiddly, gamey and fun game!

[treadasaurusrex]

Actually, that observing German officer is in a dug-in position on the 60-meter height would be in limiting terrain if the game is being played with this house rule, that originated in older PG rule sets:

Dug In Units are Automatically in Limiting Terrain in Desert Games — Unless prohibited by special scenario rules, ALL units that are dug-in ON SLOPE HEXES are considered to be in limiting terrain and are only spotted if enemy units approach to within 3 hexes, or 4 hexes for reconnaissance units – unless they are marked with a spotted marker, see 8.22)

So, only the hapless US Major is spotted, not the observing German officer on the hilltop.

[ACav]

I stick by Tambu's interpretation of LOS being blocked at this range.

Sorry if that flaunts a strict reading of the clearly flawed PG rules that don't account for ridge top summits.

That pitched ball is either in the strike zone that the Umpire can see, or it's not.

Throw those dice, or flip a coin, to decide which way to go and play on, kids.

[OldPueblo]

Has the scenario designer or Dr. Mike weighed in on this matter?

[Col. Sonichu]

The MAJ cannot see the Lt. on the hill regardless of intervening features because the MAJ's spotting range is 12 hexes being at elevation 0, vs the Lt's spotting range of 24 per 8.33.  That's not part of my original question though.

My understanding of the LoS rules is that it was a design decision to make for very simple spotting rules that don't require subjective interpretation of map features, even if they seem to defy realism.  Given that the maps are so variable in art work and terrain depicted, unlike games like  Panzerblitz and to a lesser extent, ASL, that simplification makes sense to me, but I can understand why folks wouldn't care for it and thus house-rule it. In my opinion, however, those measures seem more apt to lead to disagreements.

I do like the chart from PzBlitz II, as it provides a bit more trig to the solution without being cumbersome.

At the end of the day, it seems that most of the answers I received were based on dissatisfaction with the RaW rather than what they actually state.  Thanks for everyone's input, I will work it out with my opponent and may look at incorporating the PzBlitz II chart.

[leonard]

Following the official rules, the LOS is not blocked. There is no obstacle higher (or at same level) than the spotting unit.

[Tambu]

I stick by Tambu's interpretation of LOS being blocked at this range.

Sorry if that flaunts a strict reading of the clearly flawed PG rules that don't account for ridge top summits.

That pitched ball is either in the strike zone that the Umpire can see, or it's not.

Throw those dice, or flip a coin, to decide which way to go and play on, kids.

A very gentlemanly way to proceed whenever there are alternate interpretations of the flawed, PG rules.

It's only a board game and not really worth all the flap.