Another hole in the hedgerow

[leonard]

When reading about the future "American D-Day" PG game, I realized there should be a lot of hedges in that game.
Hedge rules are a problem. 
In "Beyond Normandy", "Liberation 44 1st Ed" and "Fall of France 1st Ed", the rule says you may fire through 1 hedge but not two (except if the hedge is part of the spotter or spotted hex).
In 4th Ed Terrain Chart, it says something different like : "...units not adjacent to a hedge hexside can see the hex immediately behind the hedge and no further if they are within three hexes."

The height of hedges is never mentioned but I suppose it is lower than woods or towns ( < 20m). So, these rules are probably not true when firing from a hill OVER hedges.
Furthermore, that "three hexes" rule does not seem to be understandable to me. 
I propose to replace the rule by something like :

Hedges block LOS at ground level except when firing unit and/or fired on unit are immediately behind a hedge. Any unit immediately behind a hedge is in Limited Terrain.

[cjsiam]

Hedges block LOS at ground level except when firing unit and/or fired on unit are immediately behind a hedge. Any unit immediately behind a hedge is in Limited Terrain.

Maybe with the proviso "when viewed through the hedge hexside....."

[mike perryman]

I am not home but from memory the hedgerows in the American sector were between 12 and 15 feet high with fully grown trees at the top. Almost all accounts of the fighting state they could not locate the defenders even when breaching the hedgerow. Complicating things were the hedgerows there surrounded fields 75 to 100 meters wide. Meaning at this scale every hexside would be a hedgerow hexside. American commanders had no idea exactly where the hedgerows were until encountering them. To simulate this with out a bunch of special rules I came up with the dpecial rule in the game.
                                                                          Thanks, Mike

[plloyd1010]

The general rule which (which is sort of a house rule) cjsiam, battlecarrysabot and I use is: intervening hedgerows block LOS when on the same elevation as the spotter and the target. Defenders adjacent to a hedgerow get a +1 DF or AT advantage when fire crosses the hexside, even if firer is adjacent.

This basically the compromise between Beyond Normandy, Fall of France and Airborne (all 3 versions). We haven't really dealt with Invasion '44, but I think that might be separate case.

[leonard]

I am not home but from memory the hedgerows in the American sector were between 12 and 15 feet high with fully grown trees at the top. Almost all accounts of the fighting state they could not locate the defenders even when breaching the hedgerow. Complicating things were the hedgerows there surrounded fields 75 to 100 meters wide. Meaning at this scale every hexside would be a hedgerow hexside. American commanders had no idea exactly where the hedgerows were until encountering them. To simulate this with out a bunch of special rules I came up with the dpecial rule in the game.
                                                                          Thanks, Mike

Bocage is clearly different (height, thickness, effects) and the Invasion 44 advanced rules are ok although quite complicated. I would add the limiting terrain feature anyway.

[leonard]

The general rule which (which is sort of a house rule) cjsiam, battlecarrysabot and I use is: intervening hedgerows block LOS when on the same elevation as the spotter and the target. Defenders adjacent to a hedgerow get a +1 DF or AT advantage when fire crosses the hexside, even if firer is adjacent.

This basically the compromise between Beyond Normandy, Fall of France and Airborne (all 3 versions). We haven't really dealt with Invasion '44, but I think that might be separate case.

Yes, that the way we play hedgerows, too. Just adding the Limiting terrain feature.

[mike perryman]

I will add this last thing about the hedgerows in the American sector. When Major Bingham's command captured the highest ridgeline in the sector as the division was nearing St. Lo headquarters was ecstatic as now they could observe German movements against the division. He just shook his head as all he could see was the next hedgerow, nothing beyond, the same as it had been since leaving the beach. 
                                                               Thanks, Mike