Retreat, again.

[Grognard Gunny]

Some long time ago the forum came to the conclusion that demoralized units do not have to retreat after combat if they fail their recovery roll as long as there is another unit/leader in the same hex that is not demoralized. It that true? (I've been playing it that way at any rate.) I cannot find the discussion anywhere, but it occurred a year ago or thereabouts.

It makes breaking a line extremely difficult to accomplish if the units "come back" (from demoralization) at a rate of roughly a third every turn.

Just checking.

GG

[Grognard Gunny]

See: "Retreat hell, we just got here!" for enlightenment. (Old forum discussion from March of last year.)  I believe I misread the qualifications to retreat. When in fortifications, no (or optional). All others, yes. How about in towns? (Same defensive strength as fortifications.) 

This HAS been a long standing bit of perplexity for me.

GG

[Miguelibal]

See: "Retreat hell, we just got here!" for enlightenment. (Old forum discussion from March of last year.)  I believe I misread the qualifications to retreat. When in fortifications, no (or optional). All others, yes. How about in towns? (Same defensive strength as fortifications.) 

This HAS been a long standing bit of perplexity for me.

GG

Looks to me that the demoralized unit that fails a recovery attempt MUST flee (14.3 and 14.31 page 30) even if in a town or an entrenchment. If it is a weapon unit, it is eliminated instead because the weapon crews abandoned the guns (14.34 page 31). I don't see anything on page 34 about entrenchments (16.4) preventing fleeing if the unit fails a morale check.

I think that the underlying question is probably: can a demoralized unit flee into a safe hex that is not subject to enemy DF or AT fire. If the answer is no, the unit stays put in the town or entrenchment to await its fate.

[Grognard Gunny]

However, an exception to rule 14.31 says that "... a demoralized leader or unit in a hex containing an entrenchment is not required to flee, but may do so if desired." Apparently this is the only exception to the general rule.

GG

[cjsiam]

GG we just had a relatively long discussion of the Flee from Entrenchment which is under Assault.....
Peter came up with what I think is a reasonable game mechanic....IF the Demoralized unit,
in an Assault which is an Entrenchment, misses his recovery
by >2---only then he MUST flee from the Entrenchment....<=2 they may choose to stay.....

If it's not an Assault hex, they never have to flee....if it's an Assault hex, they have to maintain a minimum <2 over
composure to stay....

Point is Demoralized units are outside of our tactical control....but, they are not necessarily suicidal....

GG, one more thing that might make this discussions easier is to normalize the nomenclature....
There is no "Retreat" in PG.....we don't "Rally" either...
We "Recover" disrupted and Demoralized units
We "Flee" if a Demoralized unit fails to recover and can be impacted by enemy fire....
And we have "Entrenchments" not fortifications.....

Miguel-- I don't see where you don't have to flee from a town---IF you can be impacted by enemy fire....
For example---if a single hex town hex....was within range of enemy INF/HMG....and the town hex was
obliterated with OBA---causing all units in the Town to be Demoralized.....The units would have to roll to
Recover---and IF they Failed they would have to Flee....
The only time they would not is if the town was surrounded and they are forced to approach a known enemy unit
in attempt to flee--in that case, the don't....otherwise, if in Town, Demoralized and fleeing---they would bolt as long
as every hex was equal or further away---and head in direction of closest SAFE terrain, or board edge....(14.33)

I think that's right.....
Towns do help -1 with Recovery rolls...but....they don't have same impact as Entrenchments regarding Fleeing...

[Grognard Gunny]

.....and we have extremely limited linguistic capacity. (Just sayin'.) AND we are expanding the rules to extraordinarily lengths. (Ain't they already difficult enough?)

GG