4th Edition Rules / 3rd Edition Scenarios

[treadasaurusrex]

Hi all,

Getting back into Panzer Grenadier and I have a question.  I've seen a bit of reference to this in other posts, but I wanted to get people's wisdom on this subject in one place.  Since there are some changes to the rules in 4th edition (different movement costs and hills not being limiting terrain anymore), I can see there potentially being some issues in playing a scenario tested with the 3rd edition rules but using the 4th.  I see three possible choices:

1) Use the rules and charts that came with the game,
2) Use the 4th edition rules and charts,
3) Use the 4th edition rules but the 3rd edition charts

Thoughts?

Robert

Howdy Robert,

At the risk annoying any number of PG purists, yet again . . .

Here's a handy house rule that many of use when playing the desert terrain PG games. It's much like the 2nd & 3rd edition rule that others have mentioned in this thread. Hope that you find it as useful as we do.
 Dug In Units are Automatically in Limiting Terrain in Desert Games
Unless prohibited by special scenario rules, ALL units that are dug-in on hill, slope, wadi & gully hexes are considered to be in limiting terrain and are spotted by enemy units that approach to within 3 hexes, or 4 hexes for reconnaissance units – unless they fire or move.
 
This house rule is a return to earlier versions of the PG rule set and is ONLY available for use for scenarios in these games:
Africa Orientale Italiana, Afrika 1944, Afrika Korps, An Army at Dawn, Conquest of Ethiopia, Desert Rats, La Campagne de Tunisie and The Last Horse Soldier

Happy trails -- Remember it's just a game -- so have fun playing it,

Treadasaurus

[triangular_cube]

Hi all,

Getting back into Panzer Grenadier and I have a question.  I've seen a bit of reference to this in other posts, but I wanted to get people's wisdom on this subject in one place.  Since there are some changes to the rules in 4th edition (different movement costs and hills not being limiting terrain anymore), I can see there potentially being some issues in playing a scenario tested with the 3rd edition rules but using the 4th.  I see three possible choices:

1) Use the rules and charts that came with the game,
2) Use the 4th edition rules and charts,
3) Use the 4th edition rules but the 3rd edition charts

Thoughts?

Robert

Howdy Robert,

At the risk annoying any number of PG pursuits, yet again . . .

Here's a handy house rule that many of use when playing the desert terrain PG games. It's much like the 2nd & 3rd edition rule that others have mentioned in this thread. Hope that you find it as useful as we do.
 Dug In Units are Automatically in Limiting Terrain in Desert Games
Unless prohibited by special scenario rules, ALL units that are dug-in on hill, slope, wadi & gully hexes are considered to be in limiting terrain and are spotted by enemy units that approach to within 3 hexes, or 4 hexes for reconnaissance units – unless they fire or move.
 
This house rule is a return to earlier versions of the PG rule set and is ONLY available for use for scenarios in these games:
Africa Orientale Italiana, Afrika 1944, Afrika Korps, An Army at Dawn, Conquest of Ethiopia, Desert Rats, La Campagne de Tunisie and The Last Horse Soldier

Happy trails -- Remember it's just a game -- so have fun playing it,

Treadasaurus

No love for the other desert modules?  Guessing you just haven't played those thus never applied your house rule to those.

[goosebrown]

Hi all,

Getting back into Panzer Grenadier and I have a question.  I've seen a bit of reference to this in other posts, but I wanted to get people's wisdom on this subject in one place.  Since there are some changes to the rules in 4th edition (different movement costs and hills not being limiting terrain anymore), I can see there potentially being some issues in playing a scenario tested with the 3rd edition rules but using the 4th.  I see three possible choices:

1) Use the rules and charts that came with the game,
2) Use the 4th edition rules and charts,
3) Use the 4th edition rules but the 3rd edition charts

Thoughts?

Robert

Howdy Robert,

At the risk annoying any number of PG pursuits, yet again . . .

Here's a handy house rule that many of use when playing the desert terrain PG games. It's much like the 2nd & 3rd edition rule that others have mentioned in this thread. Hope that you find it as useful as we do.
 Dug In Units are Automatically in Limiting Terrain in Desert Games
Unless prohibited by special scenario rules, ALL units that are dug-in on hill, slope, wadi & gully hexes are considered to be in limiting terrain and are spotted by enemy units that approach to within 3 hexes, or 4 hexes for reconnaissance units – unless they fire or move.
 
This house rule is a return to earlier versions of the PG rule set and is ONLY available for use for scenarios in these games:
Africa Orientale Italiana, Afrika 1944, Afrika Korps, An Army at Dawn, Conquest of Ethiopia, Desert Rats, La Campagne de Tunisie and The Last Horse Soldier

Happy trails -- Remember it's just a game -- so have fun playing it,

Treadasaurus

No love for the other desert modules?  Guessing you just haven't played those thus never applied your house rule to those.

We thought we had them all. I think the idea was that it was for ALL desert modules. Let Tread know what ones we missed.

[Grognard Gunny]

I think that the "poll" speaks for the most of us, thus far. (See top of first page of this topic.)

GG

[Shad]

That's a good patch for 4th edition in the desert.

[Blackcloud6]

Unless prohibited by special scenario rules, ALL units that are dug-in on hill, slope, wadi & gully hexes are considered to be in limiting terrain and are spotted by enemy units that approach to within 3 hexes, or 4 hexes for reconnaissance units – unless they fire or move.

You might want to revise the bolded portion to read unless they are marked with a spotted marker, see 8.22.

This brings your house rule in conformity with the rules as written.

[triangular_cube]

Hi all,

Getting back into Panzer Grenadier and I have a question.  I've seen a bit of reference to this in other posts, but I wanted to get people's wisdom on this subject in one place.  Since there are some changes to the rules in 4th edition (different movement costs and hills not being limiting terrain anymore), I can see there potentially being some issues in playing a scenario tested with the 3rd edition rules but using the 4th.  I see three possible choices:

1) Use the rules and charts that came with the game,
2) Use the 4th edition rules and charts,
3) Use the 4th edition rules but the 3rd edition charts

Thoughts?

Robert

Howdy Robert,

At the risk annoying any number of PG pursuits, yet again . . .

Here's a handy house rule that many of use when playing the desert terrain PG games. It's much like the 2nd & 3rd edition rule that others have mentioned in this thread. Hope that you find it as useful as we do.
 Dug In Units are Automatically in Limiting Terrain in Desert Games
Unless prohibited by special scenario rules, ALL units that are dug-in on hill, slope, wadi & gully hexes are considered to be in limiting terrain and are spotted by enemy units that approach to within 3 hexes, or 4 hexes for reconnaissance units – unless they fire or move.
 
This house rule is a return to earlier versions of the PG rule set and is ONLY available for use for scenarios in these games:
Africa Orientale Italiana, Afrika 1944, Afrika Korps, An Army at Dawn, Conquest of Ethiopia, Desert Rats, La Campagne de Tunisie and The Last Horse Soldier

Happy trails -- Remember it's just a game -- so have fun playing it,

Treadasaurus

No love for the other desert modules?  Guessing you just haven't played those thus never applied your house rule to those.

We thought we had them all. I think the idea was that it was for ALL desert modules. Let Tread know what ones we missed.

South Africa's War, C&C V2, Carpathian Brigade, DAK 44, Corazzata all come to mind. Im sure they have popped up in some of the other more expansive modules in a couple scenarios here an there.

[triangular_cube]

Unless prohibited by special scenario rules, ALL units that are dug-in on hill, slope, wadi & gully hexes are considered to be in limiting terrain and are spotted by enemy units that approach to within 3 hexes, or 4 hexes for reconnaissance units – unless they fire or move.

You might want to revise the bolded portion to read unless they are marked with a spotted marker, see 8.22.

This brings your house rule in conformity with the rules as written.

Seems a bit redundant as if they moved, and lost the spotted marker, they would no longer be dug in. Regardless, they only seem interested in a static defense in the desert.

[Blackcloud6]

It's not redundant, it treats such dug-in units just like other units that are in limited terrain: when they fire, they get a spotted marker, and it remains on them as long as they are in LoS of an enemy unit.  The way Tread the Dinosaur wrote the rule, implies that in the turn after they have fired, they no longer can be spotted.   Actually, you can leave both versions of the bold text out, because if they are considered to be in limiting terrain, they will be marked with a spotted marker if they fire, and as you say, movement doesn't matter.

[triangular_cube]

It's not redundant, it treats such dug-in units just like other units that are in limited terrain: when they fire, they get a spotted marker, and it remains on them as long as they are in LoS of an enemy unit.  The way Tread the Dinosaur wrote the rule, implies that in the turn after they have fired, they no longer can be spotted.   Actually, you can leave both versions of the bold text out, because if they are considered to be in limiting terrain, they will be marked with a spotted marker if they fire, and as you say, movement doesn't matter.

Thats not how I read it. I read Tread's house rule as the units are considered to be functionally in limited terrain when dug in on the hill/wadi/etc until they move or fire, at which point they aren't anymore. Basically only counting as pseudo limited terrain at the set up and lost as soon as they do something. Unless they moved and dug in again.

Luckily Tread is around somewhere and can clarify what he meant.