Series two rules in hand

[Greyfox]

I haven't posted much since the start of the Semester.  Been incredibly busy.....

I just got Series 2 rules.  Love the products.  Not sure how I feel about the new bombardment rules..... I was fine with the original rules as written.   It looks like it is basically the same, but with the use of a target vertices instead of target hexs I suspect it makes artillery far more destructive when units are caught in it. I don't think you get away from what some folks have been complaining about (and again, I wasn't complaining).  Love to look at the artillery doctrine to see how much area a artillery salvo could actually effect.  

Looking forward to trying it out.

[Hugmenot]

I too was fine with the 1st edition rules so I am curious if the new rules are an improvement.

[Greyfox]

Anyone played this with series 2 rules yet. If so thoughts?  Is it a real improvement the original rules.  Still don't have much time to play until this summer.  I am debating on whether or not my next game should be an IA one.

[Greyfox]

Started going through Series two rules.  So far the below are the some of the major differences between it and PG I have found (paragraphs 1-3):

a) Scale (2.4) - Company and detachment vs platoon (same as version 1 of IA rules)

b) Sequence of Play (3.0)  -  Additional phase - bombardment phase is sandwiched between the Initiative Determination Phase and Action Phase (No change from version 1 IA rules).

c) Initiative Determination (3.0 A) -  Unless the result of Winning player - losing player/2= 0.5 all fractions are rounded down and not up.  In PG all fractions are rounded up.

d) Individual Units and Stacks (3.11) - Units not activated by/directed by leaders cannot move to closer to any enemy combat units.  This applies no matter how far away the enemy units, and whether or not enemy units have line of sight or can fire at them.  In PG, you can move closer provided enemy units fire only indirect fire, have wrong type of fire (AT vs Direct Fire) for activated unit, don't have a LOS, or are outside of range.

e) Subordinate Activation (3.2) - Mentions a new leader ID system included on all new counters.  You don't need to understand rank structure or hierarchy.  Counters include stars as well as rank.  More stars have more seniority.  Ex. Major has three stars, a Captain two stars, and a Lieutenant only 1 star.

f)  Restrictions (3.3) - New section not in PG. It mentions that only Machine Gun units can fire twice per turn, and only during opportunity fire.  All other units can only fire once for opportunity fire.

As I read more (Rules 4 - 15), I will try and include some of the other major differences.  Hope this is helpful.

Mike

[Greyfox]

I have let this go far too long.....

Under Stacking (4.0) -  Eliminates PG Transport Units and Leaders (4.2) and Armored Personnel Carriers (4.3)

Limits (4.1) -
    -  Limits are still three combat units (only two of which can be companies), three transports (loaded or unloaded), and unlimited leaders.
    - In an assault hex, both sides can have up to three combat units (only two of which can be companies), and three loaded transports - for a total of 6 units per side (3 combat units and 3 loaded/unloaded transports). PG rules specifies 18 units total  - 3 units, 3 transports, and 3 loaded units per side - counting units differently.
    - Specifies a reduced sized company is still a considered a company for stacking purposes.
    - Moves all Overstacking rules to a different section.

Column Modifiers Due to Stacking (4.2) -  
     - Any hex containing a company (full or reduced strength) receives a +1 column  modifier on Direct and Bombardment tables.  
     - Any hex containing two companies (full or reduced strength) receives a +2 column modifier on Direct and Bombardment tables.  
     - The column modifier apply to all units and leaders in the hex. 
     - The +1 column modifier is also applied to the unit moving and any leader stacked with it when it enters or moves through a Drumfire Hex (9.6) or is subject to Opportunity Fire (12.0)
     - In PG this is section (4.4).  and only applies a +1 column modifier on the Direct or Bombardment Fire tables in hexes containing three combat units.  

Effects on Movement (4.3) 
     - Moving units cannot enter a hex that would cause them to exceed stacking limits.  Infantry or Cavalry companies cannot enter or move through a hex that currently has two Infantry Companies, but a MG platoon can provided that no other MG units are stacked with the two companies (remember the cap of three combat units). MG Platoons can move through a hex provided there are not three other MG Platoons there.  Transports cannot move through spaces that have three other transports.
     - PG rules Effects on Movement (4.5) -  Combat units (except APCS which are considered combat units) couldn't move into or through hexes with three other combat units.  Transport units (including APCs) cannot move into or through hexes with three other transport units.

Overstacking (4.4) - Significantly different than PG rules which is covered in Stacking limits (4.1)
     - Any units that exceed stacking limits are immediately eliminated (owners choice)
     - In PG all units and leaders are in hex are disrupted (unless already disrupted or demoralized), and the opposing player moves sufficient overstacked units to an addicted hex.  Units are only eliminated if the hex is surrounded by enemy units and there is no hex for overstocked units to displace - in the case of elimination it is the owners choice.
     - One issue/error -  In the example  it allowed for 2 infantry companies, a field artillery gun, and a MG section on a transport.  There is no such animal as a field gun.  IA has only Field Artillery Batteries (company equivalents) which would violate the stacking restrictions.  The example should probably be 2 infantry companies, a machine gun section, and a Artillery Battery loaded on a transport.

Movement (5.0) covers three pages.  I may have to do it the comparison of these rules in multiple parts.   I will try to complete over the next few months.  Hopefully this is somewhat helpful.

[plloyd1010]

Generally I agree with the comparison, but am a little befuddled as to the reason for doing it. With the exception of 2 minor points in the 4.3 and 4.4 comparisons, I agree.

• 4.3, in the PG portion: APCs are hybrid units. They stack as transport, but may take losses as combat units. This makes them weird with bombardment, but that discussion should go to the PG rules forum.
  
• 4.4, about the artillery: Artillery batteries should be treated as non-companies. I think APL got sloppy with their symbolism. The problem is that unit size actually matters in IA. The only company size units should be infantry and cavalry, though you could make an argument about transport. With that point becomes the argument sections. If a platoon or company counts as 1 for stacking, does a section count 1? Does the first one stack free like Jay's bazookas?
  

I think the rules comparison should focus on the 1st and 2nd edition of the rules. While PG references are sometimes useful, IA is a separate game. I do like the 2nd ed. rules better, but there are still some issues.

[Greyfox]

Peter,

       The reason I was doing the comparison as a precursor to building a cheat sheet for folks who are trying to transition from playing PG to IA.  I know PG rules a lot better than IA, but still have to go back and double check.  For IA, I think I would be constantly confusing, and unfortunately using, PG rules because they are so similar - mistakes would be made.  For me, a cheat sheet might is a handy reference.  I think that this could eventually be expanded to cover differences in all three rules systems (PG, IA and Modern).  I will of course start with PG and IA.  I do acknowledged that the cheat sheet will have to be much more concise than what I am typing here.
       As far as the 4.4 - I think you are right.  I just referenced Scale (2.4)   Field gun batteries are listed as 20-40 men and 2-4 artillery pieces.  In effect it is a platoon and not a battery (company sized element).  That makes much more sense from a stacking perspective. Personally I would like to see them change the symbol to a platoon symbol.

Mike

[plloyd1010]

       As far as the 4.4 - I think you are right.  I just referenced Scale (2.4)   Field gun batteries are listed as 20-40 men and 2-4 artillery pieces.  In effect it is a platoon and not a battery (company sized element).  That makes much more sense from a stacking perspective. Personally I would like to see them change the symbol to a platoon symbol.

For my Vassal graphics I've been marking the artillery & mortars as platoon size, and the MGs sections. I think the MGs are generally platoon sized units, but in literature they are usually referred to as sections. Wagons I left as companies, though I think the unit size is indistinct. I see transport as not so much 12-15 wagons, but better defined as enough to do the job.

I really should get the August 1914 support wrapped up.

[treadasaurusrex]

I am sure glad that someone is tackling the horribly organized, badly exampled, 2nd Edition IA rules, by way of creating more reader-friendly and usable reference sheets. This is a most commendable task to undertake!

 Personally, I have sworn off trying to play August 1914 and other IA games until someone has gone back and fixed the disorganized hash, that the current IA rules are in.

[Blackcloud6]

 Personally, I have sworn off trying to play August 1914 and other IA games until...

sadasaurusrex