[Rules] Lets talk about Smoke baby

[waynebaumber]

I have come across two interpretations of the smoke rule and I am curious to see what the rest of the community think

In the optional rules for smoke under limited ammunition it states that each side has a number of turns of smoke equal to 10% of turns in the game rounding fractions up. I.E in a 32 turn game you get 4 turns of smoke.
Now I have always played that as written, so in the above case you can fire smoke on four turns in the game. However my new opponent has mentioned to me that he and other believe that this applies to each on board artillery/mortar and each off board artillery increment separately.  So in the above game if you had two on board mortars and two off board artillery they could each fire smoke 4 times. This of course could result in 16 turns where smoke could be used.
Their rationale for this is that the rules state to track usage place a smoke marker under the firing unit. 
Which of the above is correct or should I say which of the above is closer to the intent of the original rule.

[plloyd1010]

My first gripe is there is not enough smoke in the game. Smoke appears to have been utilized much more than APL lets on, especially to attacking forces. Enough of that.

I am reasonably sure that the rule is intended to be used as your first interpretation. That interpretation would be consistent with most SSRs about smoke availability.

Your new opponent has back-doored into a peculiarity of how the rule is written. While the number of turns is limited, the number of increments is not. So on a given "smoke turn", according to the rule as written, all available batteries could be firing smoke. With your example, with rule as written, there could be 4 smoke concentrations fired, because you are only using smoke on 1 turn. As Rocky often said, "Hokey Smokes!"

You opponent has a more practical interpretation, but that creates a bookkeeping issue.

(Is this opponent treadasaurusrex?)

[treadasaurusrex]

My first gripe is there is not enough smoke in the game. Smoke appears to have been utilized much more than APL lets on, especially to attacking forces. Enough of that.

I am reasonably sure that the rule is intended to be used as your first interpretation. That interpretation would be consistent with most SSRs about smoke availability.

Your new opponent has back-doored into a peculiarity of how the rule is written. While the number of turns is limited, the number of increments is not. So on a given "smoke turn", according to the rule as written, all available batteries could be firing smoke. With your example, with rule as written, there could be 4 smoke concentrations fired, because you are only using smoke on 1 turn. As Rocky often said, "Hokey Smokes!"

You opponent has a more practical interpretation, but that creates a bookkeeping issue.

(Is this opponent treadasaurusrex?)

Gosh, mentioned in dispatches by my august mentor and a ferocious opponent!

Here's another poorly written &unrealistic PG rule that desperately needs clarification & revision. It should be one smoke hex per firing unit, per turn, for whatever number of turns are specified in the rules. One still has to throw a 5 or more with two dice for the smoke to actually arrive on target. The bookkeeping might be annoying, but in most scenarios one has precious few mortars, OBA increments, or on-board artillery.

On a related topic, German and British tank units in WW2 typically used onboard smoke dischargers to help conceal their locations when displacing to another firing position. That's a fair amount of smoke for a platoon of vehicles to be able to discharge at once. However, this tactic is not reflected in even the optional PG rules.

Also, nearly all sides' tanks and many AFVs in WW2 also had smoke rounds they could fire in their combat loadouts. That use might really be too much to keep track of.

[triangular_cube]

My first gripe is there is not enough smoke in the game. Smoke appears to have been utilized much more than APL lets on, especially to attacking forces. Enough of that.

I am reasonably sure that the rule is intended to be used as your first interpretation. That interpretation would be consistent with most SSRs about smoke availability.

Your new opponent has back-doored into a peculiarity of how the rule is written. While the number of turns is limited, the number of increments is not. So on a given "smoke turn", according to the rule as written, all available batteries could be firing smoke. With your example, with rule as written, there could be 4 smoke concentrations fired, because you are only using smoke on 1 turn. As Rocky often said, "Hokey Smokes!"

You opponent has a more practical interpretation, but that creates a bookkeeping issue.

(Is this opponent treadasaurusrex?)

Gosh, mentioned in dispatches by my august mentor and a ferocious opponent!

Here's another poorly written &unrealistic PG rule that desperately needs clarification & revision. It should be one smoke hex per firing unit, per turn, for whatever number of turns are specified in the rules. One still has to throw a 5 or more with two dice for the smoke to actually arrive on target. The bookkeeping might be annoying, but in most scenarios one has precious few mortars, OBA increments, or on-board artillery.

On a related topic, German and British tank units in WW2 typically used onboard smoke dischargers to help conceal their locations when displacing to another firing position. That's a fair amount of smoke for a platoon of vehicles to be able to discharge at once. However, this tactic is not reflected in even the optional PG rules.

Also, nearly all sides' tanks and many AFVs in WW2 also had smoke rounds they could fire in their combat loadouts. That use might really be too much to keep track of.

Its easy to fall into the trap of believing nothing is baked into the core rules. Units moving from hex to hex arent just nose to tail moving in a straight line. At the platoon level a fair amount of that nuance IS going to be baked in, but only the system designers can really say for sure WHAT all is baked in. To me, firing enough smoke to block out a 200M hex is going to be a much higher saturation, and of special note than a few odd smoke rounds from a tank unit. Consider the combined arms modifiers for assault, differing OF rules for tanks vs personel (in 4th), moving tanks having a negative OF AT value, etc.

Another thing to consider is that in special circumstances where units are truly moving with no available concealment or cover, SSR bake in an extra modifier (arctic front has units crossing ice suffering an extra +2 to direct fire and whatnot).

Not trying to attack you of course, and im sure plenty know more about smoke than me, but in a platoon level game I'm expecting more abstraction and a bit less chrome than you.

Just my opinion.

[goosebrown]

I vote for one smoke hex per unit per turn for as many turns as there is smoke. All I read i that smoke was used all the time when available. (And certainly from armor units as they maneuvered in WWII) 

200m seems like a lot, but this is not each unit firing a single tube. A turn is 15min and a platoon has 4-5 mortars/guns which means, what 5 tubes firing even one round a minute *could* be 75 smoke rounds (assuming they had that much supply) in what amounts to not a large area. I bet they didn't need that many round either to fill up a 200m hex. Anyway, point is, I think that unless something else was going on with supply they had a lot of smoke they could generate.

[waynebaumber]

I see pro and cons for both sides. I am very much in favour of the Keep it Simple Stupid (KISS) for PG so I lean to my first interpretation of the rules. However if my esteemed opponents what to play with the second interpretation, I can live with that with the one cravat that when I am attacking I can also use the rule. 

My reading suggest that some nations used smoke far more than other, the western Allies for example, I would also suggest that there were times when supply issues simply meant that there was no smoke available. But going down that route will lead to far more chrome than PG needs.

[Juiceman]

I have come across two interpretations of the smoke rule and I am curious to see what the rest of the community think

In the optional rules for smoke under limited ammunition it states that each side has a number of turns of smoke equal to 10% of turns in the game rounding fractions up. I.E in a 32 turn game you get 4 turns of smoke.
Now I have always played that as written, so in the above case you can fire smoke on four turns in the game. However my new opponent has mentioned to me that he and other believe that this applies to each on board artillery/mortar and each off board artillery increment separately.  So in the above game if you had two on board mortars and two off board artillery they could each fire smoke 4 times. This of course could result in 16 turns where smoke could be used.
Their rationale for this is that the rules state to track usage place a smoke marker under the firing unit. 
Which of the above is correct or should I say which of the above is closer to the intent of the original rule.

I play it as the number of turns of smoke or illumination per the artillery unit or increment.  The rule is vague, what a surprise, but it makes reference to artillery increments firing.  Also, the last line under "Limited Ammunition" why would you need to keep track of usage for each unit if the smoke or illumination was not by each increment or battery having that many turns of smoke or illumination ammo available.

Limited Ammunition
To track usage, place either a Smoke or Illumination marker under the firing unit to indicate one usage or note off-board artillery's usage on a piece of paper.

If you interpret the rule as such you will get an increase in smoke or illumination rounds.  Just remember that you need to roll a 5 or more (2d6) to hit with smoke or illumination.