The SdKfz 10/4 has armor again

[plloyd1010]

Long ago, in a thread I can no longer find, I asked about why the SdKfz 10/4 became armored. For those who never looked it up, the SdKfz 10 is a light haft-tracked truck. One of several types made by the Germans and Italians. To make the 4 variant, the shoes are removed from a 20mm anti-aircraft gun, and the frame is bolted to the bed of the SK10. Wow là! DIY SPAA.

When the SK10/4 first appeared in the game system it was unarmored.


That's good, consistent with it's truck design. Then it got armor in Kursk: South Flank.


I asked Dr. Mike about this, and a couple emails back-n-forth, Mike agreed, yeah probably shouldn't have been armored. The a fore mentioned discussion came to a similar conclusion, with a possible exception in 1945 (which I haven't been able to find the reference for).

I am in the process of expanding the 1940r Britain and German OOB extensions with a view to Dunkirk support, and the SdKfz 10/4 is again armored. The SdKfz 6/2 (picture a duce-n-half with the back wheels replaced with tracks) is also armored. Again I am confounded by the notion that replacing the rear wheels of a truck provides much small arms protection. It is even hard to see the armor on the base version of the SdKfz 7, actually the cab on the armed versions is armored.  Anyway, is this another John Stafford thing? Like changing the HMGs?

While I'm at it: What is the difference between this 37mm AA mount and this one ?
Apart front the fact that the first should not have armor, and has the wrong gun image.

[J6A]

Wikipedia says "Sd.Kfz. 7 armed with a 3.7 cm FlaK 36 anti-aircraft gun (in 1944 switched to 3.7 cm FlaK 43). Again, both open and armored cab variants existed. About 1000 produced by the end of January 1945."

So, maybe the 0 armor is the armored cab version?

It also says "37 mm FlaK36 auf Fahrgestell Zugkraftwagen 5t (Sd.Kfz. 6/2): Sd.Kfz. 6 fitted with a 3.7 cm FlaK 36 gun, sides would fold down to allow space to work on. Crew of seven."

So, I'll guess different ratings are the Flak 43 vs. Flak 36.  Although it seems odd that the version with the Flak 43 has lower ratings.  And the article (admittedly brief) doesn't mention an armored cab on the 6/2.

[J6A]

This page says no armor on the 6/2.

This page has a model of the armored cab 7/2

And from what I see, the Flak 43 was an improved version of the 37, so the lower rating definitely seems off.

[plloyd1010]

Wikipedia says "Sd.Kfz. 7 armed with a 3.7 cm FlaK 36 anti-aircraft gun (in 1944 switched to 3.7 cm FlaK 43). Again, both open and armored cab variants existed. About 1000 produced by the end of January 1945."

So, maybe the 0 armor is the armored cab version?

It also says "37 mm FlaK36 auf Fahrgestell Zugkraftwagen 5t (Sd.Kfz. 6/2): Sd.Kfz. 6 fitted with a 3.7 cm FlaK 36 gun, sides would fold down to allow space to work on. Crew of seven."

So, I'll guess different ratings are the Flak 43 vs. Flak 36.  Although it seems odd that the version with the Flak 43 has lower ratings.  And the article (admittedly brief) doesn't mention an armored cab on the 6/2.

I am not arguing about the SdKdz 7 having armor. If for no other reason than it has had armor since the original PG. There is minuscule armor on the front of the SdKdz 7. Several were produced with armored cabs. I made note of that, particularly because it pertains to the armed versions.

Both the SdKfz 6/2 and SdKfz 7/2 appearing in the game system so far are 1940 versions (Fall of France and Road to Dunkirk). So I am pretty sure we have the same gun.

The SdKfz 6 article that you reference notes that the vehicle is the designated prime mover for the 105mm howitzer. That makes it an artillery park vehicle. None of the other articles I have seen reference any armored versions. The vehicle was produced by Bussing-NAG, a company which was into making heavy trucks at the time.

[J6A]

From the brief look I had, the 6/2 never had armor, so I don't think it should have it in the game.

If those are all early war versions, your guess at the different factors is as good as mine.

[leonard]

When the SK10/4 first appeared in the game system it was unarmored.


I asked Dr. Mike about this, and a couple emails back-n-forth, Mike agreed, yeah probably shouldn't have been armored. The a fore mentioned discussion came to a similar conclusion, with a possible exception in 1945 (which I haven't been able to find the reference for).

I am in the process of expanding the 1940r Britain and German OOB extensions with a view to Dunkirk support, and the SdKfz 10/4 is again armored. The SdKfz 6/2 (picture a duce-n-half with the back wheels replaced with tracks) is also armored. Again I am confounded by the notion that replacing the rear wheels of a truck provides much small arms protection. It is even hard to see the armor on the base version of the SdKfz 7, actually the cab on the armed versions is armored.  Anyway, is this another John Stafford thing? Like changing the HMGs?

While I'm at it: What is the difference between this 37mm AA mount and this one ?
Apart front the fact that the first should not have armor, and has the wrong gun image.

Peter, the first mess was in Fall of France. My original design included unarmored SK6/2 AA halftracks. The piece had 8 MP, 8-9 (DF) and 2-6 (AT).
However, for unknown reasons, the developer chose to include one SK 7/2 instead. It was an obvious error since that vehicle was only introduced in 1942 and partially armored versions were available in 1943.

For Road to Dunkirk, I included both SK 10/4 (10 MP, 5-9 DF, 0-4 AT) and the same SK 6/2, both unarmored. This time, they were published as such except for the armor value (and wrong image).

Historically, the SK 10/4 included a 2 cm Flak 30 on the rear platform of a Zgkw.1t halftrack. Starting in 1941, the gun was changed for a 2cm Flak 38 and the vehicle labelled SK 10/5. In 1942, 8mm thick armor plates were mounted to protect the radiator and driver.

[plloyd1010]

The SdKfz 6/2, SdKfz 7/1 and SdKfz 10/4 are going to have 2 versions in the Vassal extensions, starting the 1940 German OOB extensions. The versions will be switchable with the Alt+# key combo. The options being historical and game versions. I'm putting the historical version as the default.