(12-03-2018, 10:10 PM)plloyd1010 Wrote: Yup, that's the problem. I would have INF/HMG teams in the trenches, mortars/guns in the town with back-up INF. Of course, when you do that, your opponent is going to try to find a solution to that problem.
And that is pretty interesting issue when Russian facing Germans.....(I'm looking at you Dan Storm...)
If russians put up entrenchments withing 3 hexes (german Inf range and limited Terrain vis) of a town....you are libel to have a german force
overwhelm and occupy those entrenchments---taking advantage of all those modifiers...with HMG, INF and officers with +1 or +2 to moral...
and beat you to nothing
Thus---in a prospect of fighting back the German invaders---based on all kinds of things....I think Entrenchments put out in front of Russian
towns become a PROBLEM more then a SOLUTION....German Hvy ARt will disrupt the russians, they will be overrun, then Germans with great moral
will be near, or even next to your town---and you are proverbially screwed...you cannot keep the germans out---you can't hurt them in the trenches
where they can sit and just blast you to hell....
This provides a serious cognitive dissonance with reality, me thinks.....
That basically entrenching just outside a city against germans (arty and officers having significant impact) is ill-advised....
Better to let them approach in open and hit them from city, rather than putting up entrenchments which will block your fire, and provide cover when they are taken.
(12-05-2018, 01:26 AM)otto Wrote: As a defender I would place the entrenchment in the town and move to a 3 defensive modifier (2+1).
yes---we can't dig in while in town, but you can entrench ....I think you're right.
Town is -2DF; -2BF; -2Assault; -1AT
entrenchment is -2DF; -2BF; -2Assault; First Fire....
So...based on limits to modifiers, putting an entrenchment in the town -2DF; -4BF; -4Assault with first fire; -1AT;
(someone verify that is correct....4 column shift seems alot....but, "no limits" applies...)
so, clearly, that is how you play this....the BF and Assault are going to be hurtful.....
Tragically for the Russians in Fire in the Steppes Scenario 2....there is only one town hex which can be entrenched,
as they must placed be within 3 hexes of bridge....
If I remember well it's not fully aditive. But entrenchment in town adds a further -1 to (defensive bonus) ... and it provides first fire in assault. So entrenchment in town is the most advantagious defensive position in PG.
If you consider hex 0509 NOT TO BE a town hex (that's my current reading of the rules), then hex 0608 it's a good hex for an addtional entrenchement. Otherwise, I wuld suggest hex 0708. As a defender you want always a safe hex in which to escape. Ohterwise, if you want o be more aggressive as a defender, then hex 0709 is for you. It very much depends on the scenario, victory conditions, OOB of Germans and Soviets ...
I do not own Fire in the Steppe.
(12-05-2018, 10:26 PM)otto Wrote: If I remember well it's not fully aditive. But entrenchment in town adds a further -1 to (defensive bonus) ... and it provides first fire in assault. So entrenchment in town is the most advantagious defensive position in PG.
If you consider hex 0509 NOT TO BE a town hex (that's my current reading of the rules), then hex 0608 it's a good hex for an addtional entrenchement. Otherwise, I wuld suggest hex 0708. As a defender you want always a safe hex in which to escape. Ohterwise, if you want o be more aggressive as a defender, then hex 0709 is for you. It very much depends on the scenario, victory conditions, OOB of Germans and Soviets ...
I do not own Fire in the Steppe.
I also seemed to remember it's not fully additive---but I can't find the reference....
Can anyone spot the "entrenchment in towns" defensive impact constraints?
cj
Direct Fire against entrenched personnel and weapon units in a town hex suffers a -3 column shift (-2 for the town, -1 for the entrenchment in other limiting terrain).
Bombardment Fire at entrenched personnel and weapon units in a town hex suffers a -2 column shift (if entrenchment in town, still only -2).
Anti-Tank Fire targeting an AFV or transport unit in an town hex containing a Entrenchment marker suffers -1 column shift (-1 for the town, see also 16.42)
Assault against units entrenched in a town hex suffers a -2 column shift (–2 Against defending units occupying town, entrenchment, or cave (vs. entrenchment in town, still only -2).
While Entrenchment markers in town do not provide an additional column shift in assault, they do provide First Fire for personnel and weapon units but not for AFV, cavalry, and transport units (16.42). Depending on the makeup of the defenders, placing an Entrenchment marker in a town hex should be a strong consideration.
After taking a quick look at scenario 2, I think I would put Entrenchment markers in 0610 (town hex), 0809 (to prevent road movement across the bridge). The third placement is more difficult because you have options like 0708 that could slow down the south German advance a little bit but I think I would place it in 0711 (or 0710). While 0711 is adjacent to the town, it is adjacent to only one town hex (and that hex will contain an Entrenchment marker) so the Germans are unlikely to delay their attack on the town before they can capture 0711 and use it as a fire base.
(12-04-2018, 10:56 PM)Greyfox Wrote: It has been a while (year’s) since I have played.
Why?
Two reasons..... 1) Busy and 2) Haven't found many players were I have been at.
1) I am an Army Officer - I moved to Germany from JAN 2013 - JUN 2017. I was with V Corps from JAN - SEP 2013 (one 90 day deployment to Afghanistan). Then when I went to USAREUR I found myself as the first lead planner for something new called ATLANTIC RESOLVE (our response to Russian Aggression in Crimea), and followed it up with an assignment as the Future Plans Branch Chief for USAREUR. I followed that assignment with a billet XO for Virginia Tech (a Senior Military College) who was dual hatted as the primary, and only, instructor for over 104 cadets. Every free moment belonged to my wife and kids (4.5 and almost 3 years) when I got off. I was absolutely swamped for a period of almost five years. Just recently, due to an increase in personnel, my boss reduced my focus and I am now focused on the administrative and logistical tasks for an organization of about 30 Cadre and almost 500 cadets. That has finally created some time for myself and am considering bringing some of my games on TDY to either play solo or find a partner or to try and find one to play a game or two during Winter Break.
2) Haven't found anyone local for F2F (perferred). Still haven't figured out how to do Vassal. But am willing to try skyping or FaceTime with opponents.
As a historian (BA in U.S. History and Master in Military Arts and Sciences (MMAS) in Military History and another in Theater Operations) I absolutely love the game system which I believe models World War II tactics much better than most other systems. I actually own or have on order almost all the games and supplements in either hard copy or digital format; only missing Siapan, Pusan Perimeter, Kursk Burning Tigers, Broken Axis, and Upgraded Shermans. I also own or have on order all games and or supplements for IA, and PG Modern. I have the ability to play almost every scenario.
(12-04-2018, 10:56 PM)Greyfox Wrote: It has been a while (year’s) since I have played.
Why?
Two reasons..... 1) Busy and 2) Haven't found many players were I have been at.
1) I am an Army Officer - I moved to Germany from JAN 2013 - JUN 2017. I was with V Corps from JAN - SEP 2013 (one 90 day deployment to Afghanistan). Then when I went to USAREUR I found myself as the first lead planner for something new called ATLANTIC RESOLVE (our response to Russian Aggression in Crimea), and followed it up with an assignment as the Future Plans Branch Chief for USAREUR. I followed that assignment with a billet XO for Virginia Tech (a Senior Military College) who was dual hatted as the primary, and only, instructor for over 104 cadets. Every free moment belonged to my wife and kids (4.5 and almost 3 years) when I got off. I was absolutely swamped for a period of almost five years. Just recently, due to an increase in personnel, my boss reduced my focus and I am now focused on the administrative and logistical tasks for an organization of about 30 Cadre and almost 500 cadets. That has finally created some time for myself and am considering bringing some of my games on TDY to either play solo or find a partner or to try and find one to play a game or two during Winter Break.
2) Haven't found anyone local for F2F (perferred). Still haven't figured out how to do Vassal. But am willing to try skyping or FaceTime with opponents.
As a historian (BA in U.S. History and Master in Military Arts and Sciences (MMAS) in Military History and another in Theater Operations) I absolutely love the game system which I believe models World War II tactics much better than most other systems. I actually own or have on order almost all the games and supplements in either hard copy or digital format; only missing Siapan, Pusan Perimeter, Kursk Burning Tigers, Broken Axis, and Upgraded Shermans. I also own or have on order all games and or supplements for IA, and PG Modern. I have the ability to play almost every scenario.
Greyfox, you are missing Saipan & Pusan, which means you probably are missing Marianas and Counter-Attack as well. Hopefully you will try out one of my designs one day.
(12-04-2018, 10:56 PM)Greyfox Wrote: It has been a while (year’s) since I have played.
Why?
Two reasons..... 1) Busy and 2) Haven't found many players were I have been at.
1) I am an Army Officer - I moved to Germany from JAN 2013 - JUN 2017. I was with V Corps from JAN - SEP 2013 (one 90 day deployment to Afghanistan). Then when I went to USAREUR I found myself as the first lead planner for something new called ATLANTIC RESOLVE (our response to Russian Aggression in Crimea), and followed it up with an assignment as the Future Plans Branch Chief for USAREUR. I followed that assignment with a billet XO for Virginia Tech (a Senior Military College) who was dual hatted as the primary, and only, instructor for over 104 cadets. Every free moment belonged to my wife and kids (4.5 and almost 3 years) when I got off. I was absolutely swamped for a period of almost five years. Just recently, due to an increase in personnel, my boss reduced my focus and I am now focused on the administrative and logistical tasks for an organization of about 30 Cadre and almost 500 cadets. That has finally created some time for myself and am considering bringing some of my games on TDY to either play solo or find a partner or to try and find one to play a game or two during Winter Break.
2) Haven't found anyone local for F2F (perferred). Still haven't figured out how to do Vassal. But am willing to try skyping or FaceTime with opponents.
As a historian (BA in U.S. History and Master in Military Arts and Sciences (MMAS) in Military History and another in Theater Operations) I absolutely love the game system which I believe models World War II tactics much better than most other systems. I actually own or have on order almost all the games and supplements in either hard copy or digital format; only missing Siapan, Pusan Perimeter, Kursk Burning Tigers, Broken Axis, and Upgraded Shermans. I also own or have on order all games and or supplements for IA, and PG Modern. I have the ability to play almost every scenario.
Greyfox, you are missing Saipan & Pusan, which means you probably are missing Marianas and Counter-Attack as well. Hopefully you will try out one of my designs one day.
Jay,
Actually, I have both of those. I think at the time I bought both of those there were sales on and Saipan and Pusan were out of print. Looking forward to adding both of those to my collection on or after Christmas. I can’t wait to try out your Counterattack. We are likely to have a Lorean War themed digital staff ride at our University. I have listened to the audible addition of Farenbach’s “This Kind of War” and am not sure if I should read Toland, Appleman, of Paik Sun Yup next.
