PG on Ebay

[Coniglius]

Lots of PG titles currently on Ebay at rock bottom prices. Many older boxed sets for <$10-$15. Good opportunity to fill in those oop gaps!!!

[Hugmenot]

Or to get duplicates of maps/counters. Off to ebay I go!

[larry marak]

Coniglius is right, lots of opportunities for those who entered the fray late. A copy of Tank Battles (the first, fairly primitive PG book) currently at $2. Campaigns and Commanders vol 1, similarly priced. Many recently out of print items.

This availability is part of what Dr. B. was talking of when he wrote of the new competitive enviornment Avalanche is working in. Not just competing against other companies products, but also against everything Avalanche ever printed which can become available again on the secondary market.

[Coniglius]

I can't argue against secondary markets when the item is no longer in production. The way I look at it, Dr. B sold a product some time ago (Tank Battles for example). He made his money on that copy. The current owner of that copy has decided he no longer wants it, and is trying to recover some of his original cost. I get that, and I would hope that Dr. B understands that as well.  He should have no expectation of earning additional dollars on an item that he sold many years ago, especially since it is long out of print.

Now, there are also copies of Army at Dawn and Conquest of Ethiopia for sale on Ebay at a VERY steep discount (much less than the best price ever promotion). THAT, I do not agree with. If the seller acquired those at a deeper discount than what is conventionally advertised (to GC members or regular customers), then he is impacting Dr. B's business by severely undercutting him.

[Hugmenot]

Secondary markets always existed; they just became more accessible with the rise of the internet.

I believe it's safe to say most of us has bought a game, new or used, found out we did not like it for whatever reason and resold it. I've personally bought several games at a good price because I knew I could recover most of my costs if I did not like it, including my first PG game. Over the years, I've probably bought a little more than half my collection from secondary markets and all but a few very still in print. A viewpoint could say that secondary markets cost AVP 40+ sales, mine says that they generated 30+ sales for AVP as otherwise it's unlikely I would ever have purchased any one of their products.

The last two games I bought from secondary markets are Andean Abyss ($25) and Crusade and Revolution ($25). I had only a mild interest in them but I felt I won't lose more than $5 per game if I find out these games are not for me.

I think Mike B's issues were much more with online deep discounters. They purchase games from the manufacturers at 40% of MSRP and can sell them at below GC cost and still make a profit as they operate on volume. One of them that used to carry AVP products is getting out of that model after many years. Just look for the cheapest price for Legion Wargames games and you will figure out which one I mean.

Mike B. might have seen unrealized profits (when the company was in dire financial position) and not seen the long-term effect of the extra exposure. I am not so sure he would answer the same way if the question of secondary markets was brought to him again.

[larry marak]

I notice that GWAS and SWWAS command far higher prices on ebay.

[rerathbun]

The way I look at it, Dr. B sold a product some time ago (Tank Battles for example). He made his money on that copy. The current owner of that copy has decided he no longer wants it, and is trying to recover some of his original cost. I get that, and I would hope that Dr. B understands that as well.  He should have no expectation of earning additional dollars on an item that he sold many years ago, especially since it is long out of print.

He does understand it (we discussed this on my last visit).  He's not expecting to make any more money on older items (especially the out-of-print ones ).  His point about competing with AvPress's old items is that any game company can't afford to keep an item in print nearly as long as they used to.  Twenty years ago old games were thrown away or went in a (very) local garage sale and didn't impact current sales.  Now they sell and re-sell on ebay.  It's the main reason why a large number of PG games went out of print this year.

[Coniglius]

The way I look at it, Dr. B sold a product some time ago (Tank Battles for example). He made his money on that copy. The current owner of that copy has decided he no longer wants it, and is trying to recover some of his original cost. I get that, and I would hope that Dr. B understands that as well.  He should have no expectation of earning additional dollars on an item that he sold many years ago, especially since it is long out of print.

He does understand it (we discussed this on my last visit).  He's not expecting to make any more money on older items (especially the out-of-print ones ).  His point about competing with AvPress's old items is that any game company can't afford to keep an item in print nearly as long as they used to.  Twenty years ago old games were thrown away or went in a (very) local garage sale and didn't impact current sales.  Now they sell and re-sell on ebay.  It's the main reason why a large number of PG games went out of print this year.

I totally understand that. I'm not complaining about it; I get it. THat's why I was particularly upset about seeing Army at Dawn and Conquest of Ethiopia listed for $30. Last I checked CoE was up around $56 and AaD was in the upper 30's and climbing. Hopefully they will get to be prohibitively expensive and other would-be buyers will just go over to the AP website and buy it there. My point was particular to the oop items, several of which have become a holy grail of sorts.
I am missing 12 of the titles in the library. 2x I am ordering under the current promo (AaD and CoE, along with SOI '67). Of the remaining 10, 7x are readily available on Ebay but only Hammer and Sickle and Kursk: South Flank are available from AP. Maybe the others will be reprinted at some point, maybe not. One in particular, Lion of Finland, is what I refered to as a holy grail. I know it was the predecessor to Arctic Front, but I know I will go into fits if that becomes that last title that eludes me.
Bottom line, if the title is oop, then feel free to hunt as aggressively as you like on the secondary markets. If you want to support Dr. B, then I would say avoid the items that he is still actively marketing.  

[Shad]

I notice that GWAS and SWWAS command far higher prices on ebay.

I'm not a WAS guy, but my passive observation is that these lines have had much fewer releases and smaller print runs of late.

He does understand it (we discussed this on my last visit).  He's not expecting to make any more money on older items (especially the out-of-print ones ).  His point about competing with AvPress's old items is that any game company can't afford to keep an item in print nearly as long as they used to.  Twenty years ago old games were thrown away or went in a (very) local garage sale and didn't impact current sales.  Now they sell and re-sell on ebay.  It's the main reason why a large number of PG games went out of print this year.

That's an interesting point! I think it must have had an even more severe effect on collectibles like baseball cards and comic books.

[Hugmenot]

Coniglius, the AaD and CoE auctions appear to have been posted by an individual, not a store. There is only 1 copy of each game available so all but the winner of these auctions will pay the AVP price (or maybe slightly less if an e-tailer carries AsD).

Keep in mind it's possible the individual may have pre-ordered (and paid) in September 2013, a year and a half before the products were published. It's a long time and the seller may have gotten tired of the series, hit a financial hardship, or whatever. I am glad he can recover some of his costs and that someone else will maybe buy a product he may not otherwise bought.

The only thing that bothers me about secondary markets is speculators. For example, I was interested in the Finnish Triology by Miku Games but wanted to buy a copy when they hit the new continent. Well, it did not happen because copies were snatched up very quickly with many individuals posting them immediately on secondary markets at double, triple what they paid. Too much for me.

Lions of Finland. I have seen maybe three copies for sale in 3.5 years and the cheapest copy was over $100. That cured me of trying to get everything PG.