BM-13 deployment

[campsawyer]

I see no point of having a movement ready and fire ready sides if that was the case; one side with a special rule similar to that of the M18 would suffice.

I agree, but that seems odd that it is just for BM-13's and not other SPA's and portee's

Perhaps the portees were a fix for something as simple as counter-space on the sprue (counter-tree). That was they could get all the counters in they needed .. who knows the inner workings of APL

Understood, just seems odd.

Also, if they are treated as limbered/unlimbered, they would be able to move and flip on one turn then fire on the next, but to move again, they would need one turn to limber, then they could move. Again odd, as they are already on the trucks.

[waynebaumber]

I am with Vince on using like MTR's. My personal view is they should not be on the board in counter form. From what I have read they were used in a "shock and awe" bombardment at the start of a major engagement/set piece battle. Then dispersed to avoid any countbattery fire.
I find in PG they are often more of a hinderance to the Soviet player as they are often worth 3 steps if lost, rarely hit the target (if using the early rocket artillery rules) and run out of ammo just when they may be useful.

[campsawyer]

Ok, so if I am hearing peoples replies, they are in favor of them being able to move and then flip on turn 1, fire turn 2, flip turn 3, move turn 4, as that is how mortars do it.

[vince hughes]

Alan,

If they are like mortars, its either move, flip or fire. There is no move and flip as per your example.

The advantage they get over real life is to fire 3 x as fast. This probably compensates for their inaccuracy ?

[campsawyer]

Vince,

here is the issue, there is nothing in the rules for this. If treated likr limber/unlimbered the tgey can move and flip. But as you others interpret differently. I believe this need to be clarifed given the lack of rules for dual sided units.

[vince hughes]

Vince,

here is the issue, there is nothing in the rules for this. If treated likr limber/unlimbered the tgey can move and flip. But as you others interpret differently. I believe this need to be clarifed given the lack of rules for dual sided units.

Alan,

Can I really politely point out that I think you are misreading the artillery unlimbering rules. (but please correct me if I have misinterpreted your claim).

No other artillery can move and 'flip' as you claim.

Other artillery can move and unload (unhook) but they stay on their limbered side. But they can NOT unlimber that turn (flip) see rule 5.63.

If they start the activation loaded on the transport, they can unload and unhook (flip) in the same turn but only in the hex they started (ie: not move to any hex beforehand). So in other words they can not move, unhook and flip. No unit can do that.

Finally, the only unit that can actually move if they start loaded and then unload and flip is the transport unit that off loaded the gun.

[Hugmenot]

Alan, while I agree with Vince, I do think it would be a good idea to clarify their usage in version 4 of the rules. Maybe post something in that new rules thread with a link to this thread?

[campsawyer]

Hugs, Thanks that is what I amtrying to get to. No specific rule so I am trying to see how others plsy it.

[vince hughes]

Hugs, Thanks that is what I amtrying to get to. No specific rule so I am trying to see how others plsy it.

Unfortunately, it seems the Red Warriors SSR's were written in a rush as even the Penal units have loop-holes in the rules, though I pointed them out in John's effort to re-write the rulebook. Hopefully, they will be addressed along with a simple line for the 'Organs' and deployment.

[campsawyer]

Hugs, Thanks that is what I amtrying to get to. No specific rule so I am trying to see how others plsy it.

Unfortunately, it seems the Red Warriors SSR's were written in a rush as even the Penal units have loop-holes in the rules, though I pointed them out in John's effort to re-write the rulebook. Hopefully, they will be addressed along with a simple line for the 'Organs' and deployment.

Unfortunately, Red Warriors SSR's were just a direct copy of the ones produced within Heroes of the Soviet Union. I have emailed John S. and proposed an addition for dual sided units such as the BM-13 and 81/82mm mortars. It is what you and others are saying for the rule. I believe that this is a core rule as I can see other units appearing down the line like these.