Muddying the (river) waters

[plloyd1010]

I'm working the brown water navies of River Battleships and Blue Danube (formerly River Fleets), and come across what is an apparent rules conflict.

• 17.18 Hits: Once a boat suffers a hit, it retains that hit throughout the scenario damage is cumulative and the boat does not have to suffer two or four hits at once to be reduced or destroyed.
  
• 17.54 Fire Results: If a full-strength boat with a Hit marker on it suffers a hit, remove the Hit marker and flip the boat to its reduce side.
  

Making the assumption that 17.18 simply means that damage cannot be repaired during the game (like anything else can be repaired), that would make damage progression go like this:
   

Does that seem right to everyone? (Daniel H. especially.)

Assuming that is correct. Are all boats created equal regardless of size? Do large and small boats take for hits to sink, or should that have just been the large boats. Keep in mind that else where small boats and landing craft get sunk with 1 or 2 hits (depending on type).

[Hugmenot]

That is correct.

Four (4) hits eliminate a ship (same for Land Cruisers) and damage cannot be repaired.

[plloyd1010]

That is correct.

Four (4) hits eliminate a ship (same for Land Cruisers) and damage cannot be repaired.

Some how the damage progression on small boats looks wrong.
   

Bigger boats/ships normally can take more damage before becoming flotsam (sinksam?).

P.S. Land Cruisers and Defense of France are on the to-do list.

[Greyfox]

I think the illustration you have above is incorrect.  The first three are correct.  The last, fourth hit, should result in a wreck marker.  See 17.11.

Mike

[plloyd1010]

I think the illustration you have above is incorrect.  The first three are correct.  The last, fourth hit, should result in a wreck marker.  See 17.11.

Mike

You're right. I sit and type corrected.

That also raises the question, would 2 hex boats produce 2 wrecks? Should there be wrecks for Soviet 1124 and 1125 gunboats? (Because they are 3 small boats and reduction would mean you already lost one.)

Mike, have a got a Vassal river battle going?

[Hugmenot]

One wreck marker in each of the 2 hexes when a 2-hex boat is eliminated.

It could have been interesting to have the 2-hex boats to require 6 or even 8 hits before elimination and maybe even for the bigger boats to have multiple counters (like in the 1866 series) and some new riverine markers.  But we were provided a half sheet of counters, a subject and a few bullet points; Matt and I designed and wrote the rules and scenarios.

It was a challenging project because developing riverine rules that are coherent with the main PG rules and still provide players with options is quite difficult.  I could have developed a boxed game with 30 scenarios with the time I spent on River Fleets.

[Greyfox]

Peter,

       Apologies.... I was a good portion of the summer at Cadet Summer Training at Fort Knox.  I was using an old Mac (almost 10 years) which wasn't running well, and I was incredibly busy.  Upon my return wife went down with what we thought was Strep (turns out it was COVID) followed by Bronchitis.  She has had a long recovery, and I haven't been playing much.  

       If you need me to initiate a vassal River Fleets, I can set it up and start doing it.  Might take 2 weeks to a month to complete the scenario as school is starting again.

Hugmenot,
 
      I love the creatively of the rules sets you and Matt put together.  I have been back and forth for over a decade on whether or not I should try designing a scenarios for the Invasion of Norway, the Invasion of Southern France (I wrote a Master's thesis on Task for Butler in 2007), the Invasion of Madagascar, the Hurtgen Forest, Vosges Mountains, Iraqi Campaign, actions in the Levant, or the actions in India.  I love the obscure topics and would love to see more produced before AP someday closes its doors.  While I have a B.A. in U.S. History and a Master of Military Art and Science (MMAS) in Military History; I don't have the time to do the research right now, nor the facility for languages to do the type of research Dr. B. typically likes for his games.

Mike

[plloyd1010]

If you need me to initiate a vassal River Fleets, I can set it up and start doing it.  Might take 2 weeks to a month to complete the scenario as school is starting again.

Thanks Mike. River Fleets is already done. It was rebooted with Blue Danube.